At 11th Hour, Georgia Passes “Women as Livestock” Bill

After an emotional 14-hour workday that included fist-fights between lobbyists and a walk-out by women Democrats, the Georgia House passed a Senate-approved bill Thursday night that criminalizes abortion after 20 weeks.

The bill, which does not contain rape or incest exemptions, is expected to receive a signature from Republican Gov. Nathan Deal.

Commonly referred to as the “fetal pain bill” by Georgian Republicans and as the “women as livestock bill” by everyone else, HB 954 garnered national attention this month when state Rep. Terry England (R-Auburn) compared pregnant women carrying stillborn fetuses to the cows and pigs on his farm. According to Rep. England and his warped thought process, if farmers have to “deliver calves, dead or alive,” then a woman carrying a dead fetus, or one not expected to survive, should have to carry it to term.

The bill as first proposed outlawed all abortions after 20 weeks under all circumstances. After negotiations with the Senate, the House passed a revised HB 954 that makes an exemption for “medically futile” pregnancies or those in which the woman’s life or health is threatened.

If this makes its seem like Rep. England and the rest of the representatives looked beyond their cows and pigs and recognized women as capable, full-thinking human beings, think again: HB 954 excludes a woman’s “emotional or mental condition,” which means women suffering from mental illness would be forced to carry a pregnancy to term. It also ignores pregnant women who are suicidal and driven to inflict harm on themselves because of their unwanted pregnancy.

In order for a pregnancy to be considered “medically futile,” the fetus must be diagnosed with an irreversible chromosomal or congenital anomaly that is “incompatible with sustaining life after birth.” The Georgia “fetal pain” bill  also stipulates that the abortion must be performed in such a way that the fetus emerges alive. If doctors perform the abortion differently, they face felony charges and up to 10 years in prison. Given all this, the so-called compromise suddenly does not look like much of a bargain.

For anti-choice lawmakers, it is an item of faith that fetuses feel pain at 20 weeks. But scientists disagree. Reviews of all existing medical evidence have found that fetuses have not developed the neurological structures to feel pain until at least 25 weeks, and likely not until 28 weeks, in the third trimester.

Although Roe v. Wade set the precedent for abortion to be legal up to 24 weeks, state legislatures continue to ram through restrictive anti-choice laws. Georgia will join six other states with fetal pain restrictions—Nebraska, Indiana, Idaho, Kansas, Oklahoma and Alabama. North Carolina prohibits abortion after 20 weeks.

Arizona is now poised to join the roster, as the Senate passed a 20-week abortion restriction Tuesday. The bill, which awaits final approval from the House, also requires women seeking abortions to look at a state-run website littered with anti-choice propaganda.

And in the Northeast, arguably the country’s most pro-choice region, the New Hampshire House voted Thursday to ban abortion after 20 weeks. The bill now moves to the Senate to join four other anti-abortion bills passed by the House this month.

Although GOP’s war on women continues to deal blow after blow, this week held two small victories: The Oklahoma Supreme Court struck down mandated ultrasounds while the Idaho House dropped the ultrasound bill all together.

Photo from Public Domain Image.

Comments

  1. If we women are just livestock, well—livestock don’t clean the house, do the laundry, cook dinner, go grocery shopping, have sex with their owners, or anything else but eat and poop. Eat and poop. Oh yes, and have litters.

    • Beadknitter I agree with you 100%. And maybe women need to make a bill they get no Viagra, the law will state once they can no longer do what they are suppose to we will treat them like cattle and we all know what they do to male cattle and horses and goats when they cant produce. Wonder how they would feel about that I can not believe this crap in the year 2012 that they have the arrogance to link women with livestock.

      • Catherine says:

        But “Beadknitter” is factually wrong in this case. While cleaning the house can be done by livestock, their ability is admittedly quite limited. Cooking and shopping are also admittedly not effective uses for most livestock. Sex with livestock, however, is actually extraordinarily common. 40% of rural teenagers have at least one sexual experience with a farm animal. People from the city seem to have a hard time believing this, but things are very different out here. Please stop trying to impose your sexual/societal norms on other groups of people, or you are just as bad as those trying to outlaw abortion. Thank you.

        • Mariana says:

          Catherine, thanks for the amusing trolling attempt, but despite your attempt at deflecting the real nature of the conversation by pointing out the supposed imposition of sexual norms by not mentioning how sadly common bestiality is, you forgot to mention something pretty important: farm animals can’t consent, ergo it is animal abuse.

          • Everyone notices he was just making a metaphor on the abortion thing right?

            Everyone is jumping up on that and completely ignoring what this article and bill was made for, yes it was a poor use of an analogy, but the government who passed this is a poor use of an analogy

          • I can’t tell if this is brilliant satire or an epic case of sar-chasm.

        • Just what does this have to do with the issue at hand? I grew up in the country (loathed every minute of it btw) and now happily live in the city away from backwards thinking that allows men to treat women like livestock.

          Sex with the livestock is not the issue, unless you believe women are livestock.

      • mondomike says:

        http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/neal-horsley-mule-loving-republican-can

        YES, sex with livestock is another RepublicOn hobby/vice…AND IN GEORGIA NO LESS!

        What can I say?

    • I just read the bill and what scares me the most is the reporting required. The doctors are required to file reports with the state. The state will “take care” not to release the names of women who have had abortions, but “take care” just means enough care to not be considered negligent. And, if a woman gives a fake name and the doctor almost kills her, she has no legal reparations. So, you can’t get out of giving your real name unless you want to give up your right to sue for malpractice. What I worry about is that if Roe v. Wade does get overturned, these reports will be used to apply an abortion is murder law retroactively and charge all of these women with murder or some other crime.

      Another thing that concerns me is the requirement of the doctor to determine gestational age. The only real way to accurately determine gestational age, unless you’re relying on the woman’s word, is to give an ultrasound right? And if you’re only a few weeks along, wouldn’t that mean a transvaginal ultrasound?

      Also, it’s really depressing to me that not only are women thought of as livestock, but if a woman is suicidal as the thought of being forced to be a broodmare they would rather tell her to go ahead and kill herself. Then they’ll harvest the baby from her after she’s dead. Her life matters nothing other than to be a vessel.

      FML

    • Oh, but Beadknitter, I’m afraid these good ole boys force sex on their livestock. Angry? Moi?

    • Maggie Schafer says:

      And, I guess it is bestiality if we let a man have sex with us! is that not right? Is that not banned in the Bible? These lawmakers think they can have it both ways, well, I JUST HOPE THE WOMEN IN THESE STATES AND THE MEN THAT LOVE AND SUPPORT THEM KNOW HOW TO VOTE FROM NOW ON! Otherwise, women – let them go screw a cow!

  2. Clearly, logic is not a required trait in a Republican. If fetuses feel pain at 20 weeks, what do they think being born alive is going to do? Most genetic conditions cause extreme pain and I would think slowly suffocating to death from lungs that don’t work is painful too. Talk about making an already awful situation even more horrific for the families, care providers and the fetus they’re supposedly trying to protect.

    • Wow. Many of the other responses here are cogent and correct, but I’m pretty sure your remark might actually be able sway an independent or a less ideological conservative. Spread it!

    • Naomi Lazarus says:

      I know! What _is_ that?? That’s _horrific_! And inhumane… and cruel…

    • Lindsey says:

      Your comment is brilliant and I am going to spread it around for sure. thank you so much!

  3. Well, guess we’re nothing but chattel, brood sows, submissive, pieces of shit to these people. What is wrong with these people. Do they do drugs or are they just stupid…oooops never mind. I have rights, I earn my own way, I have loves, I have a VOTE. You crazy bastards better get out of the way. We women are comin after all of you. Mark my words. We will be roaring. Ladies, make sure to help others get needed IDs, take them to the polls, make sure we speak in one giant ROAR.

    • WOW. And nonhuman animals ARE submissive, piece of shit??? Speciesist much?

      • clarissa says:

        Or maybe she’s talking about how we’re being degraded as though the kind of animal we’re seen as is submissive, chattel, etc.

      • LOL “speciesist.” Let me guess, one of those members of PeTA who has no problem with selling women’s bodies to save da ky00t widdle aminals…

        Excuse me, I’m gonna go have a cheeseburger now.

        • Canaduck says:

          Sure, peg the entire animal rights movement on what one stupid, sexist group does. That will allow you to put off thinking about the considerable cruelty that goes into that cheeseburger for a little longer.

    • Bill Dulin says:

      Debbie, I am with you and will back you up. This filth that Georgia calls lawmakers needs to get back to the pig sty the came from….vot them out of office. It’s time that the people of this country gets up off their haunches and takes back the the reins of government from these idiots. Down with these repukes and their ilk…destroyers odf our country.

    • Common Sense says:

      I’m still chuckling at how misguided you seem, Debbie. Feminist ‘ROARS’ don’t change things. Reasoned arguments and, if necessary, targeted exploitations of the system are the only real ways to affect change.

  4. Jan Rodak says:

    By no means is the Northest the “most pro-choice region” in the country. The West Coast has fewer restrictions on reproductive rights than anywhere.

    • Christine says:

      California is very lax, but so are many states in the NE, such as New York, Jersey, Massachusetts, etc.

    • I think what it probably means is that the Northwest will actually pay for your abortion if you’re poor. Most other states that are pretty lax just let you do it, they don’t help you financially, but in Oregon I know for a fact they have healthcare for everyone under a certain income bracket and they allow that insurance to cover abortion, whether it be for medical emergencies or just not wanting to carry it to term.

      • Lauren Barbato says:

        Thanks for all the input! I said “arguably,” not definitively, because of course both the Northeast and the West Coast are the best places for women rights in this current climate.

        Studies have shown that if Roe v. Wade were to be overturned, the abortion policies in New York will still remain the same as they are now—pre Roe New York wasn’t that much different from 1973 on.

        Amber: Great to know Oregon has that rule! There are about 20 or so states that actually let Medicaid cover abortions (in any circumstance, pretty much).

  5. Gabrina says:

    All women, people of color, gays and anyone considered “different” should move north. Period.

    • I definitely agree. Here in NC, we’re focusing on the Marriage Amendment at the moment. I’m already making plans to move to Canada as soon as possible. I always thought NC was moderate but living in the South seriously sucks if you are in any way capable of individual thought.

      • i’m not a gay, person of color, or a woman and I still want to get the hell out of Georgia!

      • We would welcome you in Canada but you should do some research before you make such a big decision. Our Prime Minister Stephen Harper and the Conservative Party of Canada are doing everything they can to move us more to the right, in line with the Republican Party. We have a long ways to go before we get to such a place but I don’t like the direction we’re moving now.

  6. Thornbird says:

    This is the most reprehensible thing I’ve ever heard! These misogynists need to jump back into their time machine and return to their own era where they can fight to keep female “livestock” from being allowed to vote.
    I had the terrible experience of a much wanted pregnancy ending in fetal death at 22 weeks. Since it was an incomplete miscarriage, there was no question at all that I would be admitted to hospital for removal of the remaining tissue and avoid infection. I dare any of those SOB’s to tell me to my face that I had an abortion that should be illegal.
    What I really love most is that these same hypocrites want to cut funding for WIC, Head Start, Children With Special Healthcare Needs and other programs that provide support for the babies that are being born. If they plan to force women to bear children whom the mothers can’t care for because of birth defects, financial issues or other circumstances, then they need to put their money where there
    mouths are and provide for these children. That’s the thing, it’s not about “saving babies” their agenda is about legislating morality and punishing women who don’t live by their antiquated “rules”.

    • crystal says:

      I could no agree with you more! These religious idiots should not be allowed to make these ridiculous, life threatning laws. Keep up the fight ladies, make yourselves heard and let’s not let them prevail.

    • Yodwynn says:

      Read this carefully:
      “In order for a pregnancy to be considered “medically futile,” the fetus must be diagnosed with an irreversible chromosomal or congenital anomaly that is “incompatible with sustaining life after birth.” The Georgia “fetal pain” bill also stipulates that the abortion must be performed in such a way that the fetus emerges alive. ”

      This makes my heart break. They have mandated torture in a situation where the emotional pain is already unimaginable.

    • I think they are speaking out of a different orifice! I truly believe that every baby born should be a wanted baby. Babies who are not wanted are at high risk for many negative life experiences: poor housing, lack of food, lack of love, lack of education, just to name a few.

      Ever notice most women, regardless of party, are against this? (Yes, I know there are some, but they are definitely in the minority.)

    • Caroline says:

      I know! That’s the worst thing about these “pro-life” lunatics. As soon as the baby comes out of the womb they couldn’t care less about it’s well being. When it comes down to it they just want to take power and rights away from women.

  7. So what happens to the women who has a failed miscarriage (e.g. a dead fetus that has not spontaneously aborted)? Because there is no way to deliver that fetus alive. So, under this bill what? The women is supposed to die of sepsis?

    I really am continuously amazed at the attacks on women’s life and health under the guise of protecting the fetus.

  8. Let’s see if the ‘livestock’ vote these men out next term…

  9. So, if women are livestock, then having sex with a woman would be considered bestiality?

    • Old Laughing Lady says:

      Funny girl – that’s great. Having sex with a woman is bestiality!

      • Great, except I doubt republicans are against bestiality. See, the main argument against it is one of consent… a concept they are not familiar with.

        All jokes aside though, how is making a woman deliver a dead child saving anybody pain?

  10. Ruth Crook says:

    I am appalled. I am an old woman. All my life I saw improvements in women’s rights. And now in my old age I am seeing everything that my generation worked for being undone. I shudder to think what it will be like in the future. I fear for my daughters and granddaughters. The American Taliban will win if we don’t unite.

    • Old Laughing Lady says:

      Wow, Ruth – the American Taliban. Strong. True. It’s resonating in my head…thank you for that.

  11. ImTrixKat says:

    Usually have so much to say, however, ladies you have done a wonderful job covering all bases. You have even suggested my plan which is to cut all men off from sex – oh and I suggest that no woman consider becoming pregnant for a year. Of course, if we ALL vote, none of this will be necessary, because these backward thinking people will no longer be there trying to take us back to the 19th century. who would have thought we would be having this discussion in 2012, indeed! We do not forget. We do not forgive. We are Coming. Expect us! ROAR!!!

  12. Women need to “abort” these patriarchalist misogynist “war-on-women” Republicans at the ballot box in November.

  13. Does this “The Georgia “fetal pain” bill also stipulates that the abortion must be performed in such a way that the fetus emerges alive.” mean they have to deliver a live baby and then kill it?

    So much for pro-life.

    • You got right to the heart of the matter – their convoluted “thinking” couldn’t see the paradox: deliver a live baby and then kill it (murder, what’s that?) , but don’t allow a dead baby to emerge….this would be laughable if it weren’t so tragic!!

  14. This is horrible. 48% of women in the United States who choose to have abortions after their 16th week of pregnancy do so because of the fact that they are financially unable to arrange for one. Perhaps if abortion were paid for by the State like it should be, 2nd and 3rd term abortions would be moot points due to their infrequency.

  15. Forrest says:

    I wanted to say first of all that I am a man, and I love women, especially my wife.

    I thought I would take a moment to share with you all the similarities between politicians and horses on my farm. When they get old and can’t do their jobs well anymore, I’m okay with shooting them.

    In the case of the horse, this is for his or her own comfort. In the case of the politician, it’s for everyone else’s.

    • Pellinore says:

      Zing! Well said, good sir.

    • Wonderful and hilarious. Thank you Forrest! Much needed. There are many, very good men out there–obviously, you have just shown us one. Your wife is a very lucky lady.
      Unfortunately, there are also ignorant, controlling and women-hating (even if subconsciously) people too.
      I understand why but am still always astounded that this is such a polarizing issue. I deeply feel that if we were focused on both the immediate and the long-term future for women and society at large, we would (dare I say, should…) be pro-choice. And yet, there are people who are just as or even more so vehemently pro-life. Which, can be someone’s right–for them–but not for all and especially not when it endangers a living human being as this bill very much does. Mental and emotional health matter. Financial realities are very true things. A woman’s body is and should always be her own. If not, America is on a very slippery slope.

    • puellamagi says:

      +10 internet points for you, sir.

  16. ashleylynnrose says:

    so if a 13 year has sex gets pregnant even when used protection but still get pregnant she has to have the kid what the fuck women dont abort for the hell of it there are reasons

  17. Marionette says:

    I am not sure what disgusts me most, the how offended people are by being compared to livestock (for after all- we are all animals) or the closed mindedness with some of the language used in the bill.

  18. Beachale says:

    Actually New Hampshire is about to pass a bill to ban abortion after 20 weeks. Other states have passed laws requiring that the woman must consent to a sonogram before an abortion will be performed. Check out other states (not all of them southern states either): Wisconsin, Idaho, Arizona, Virginia, Utah, Pennsylvannia, and Washington. The following is interesting: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/13/state-pols-outraged-by-anti-abortion-laws-push-onerous-restrictions-on-viagra.html

    • Lauren Barbato says:

      Thanks for the info! We mentioned the new New Hampshire bill in the article, and the Arizona one as well. We’re going to continue writing about the new bills being discussed in each state in both the blog and the print magazine.

  19. I dont know about you all but this was posted march 31st… im pretty sure this is a april fools attempt. Mayby stating the obviouse…. hope so.

  20. It amuses me at the amount of bias I hear from you “non biased” peoples.

  21. We can resolve this abortion issue if we treat it like a business. As in, finding viable solutions rather than bickering like children. And by “we,” I mean society.

    Free prenatal medical care for all women, free contraception for all women, and free abortions for women at an early stage of pregnancy (say, 6-8 weeks) could potentially eradicate this ‘fetal pain’ problem altogether. I think that we could also allocate money towards free hospice services for mentally and physically ill women, including women with drug and alcohol addictions, so that they will have a loving and supportive environment to carry out their pregnancy.

    If you want to complain about a problem in society (or at work), you need to also present solutions to that problem–solutions that work, that are logically prepared, that are executed with shrewd efficiency, and that allow for compromise.

    • The trouble here is… many late-term abortions are for medical reasons. These are often badly wanted babies with horrible medical problems, who will die at birth or shortly after.

      Termination for medical reasons is NOT rare, and it is horribly sad. I have several friends who have gone through this…but because of the stigma, they tell others that they had stillbirths or miscarriages. Google “Amniotic Band Syndrome” and you’ll see what one dealt with, a babe who was being torn apart inside her mother’s womb. That’s pain for you – pain for the mother, pain for the baby. Now, we want to layer on more pain. Why?

  22. Thank you, Forrest, that comment made my day (almost as much as this story ruined it).

  23. Vercalos says:

    Pro-Life, Pro-Choice.

    Anyone with a sense of decency should see this bill is plainly and excessively cruel.

  24. Ladies,
    I am a man and must admit I feel very ashamed for being such. For a long time I have felt this shame and now it goes beyond the norm. I first read this believing it to be a joke but the further I read I realized this was 1812 and not 2012.

    So let me see if I get this right. First in no way are we (the government) gonna support birth control for women but make it so that men no longer have to be fixed. Then were gonna outlaw abortion all together and force women to give birth alive or dead, no matter what. Then were gonna prevent you from getting heath care you can afford by blocking any laws our president wants to pass in order to help the poor. Once we have done this were gonna take away any and all support programs that would help families in need. On top of this were gonna do it all by hiding behind religion. Does that seem about right?

    This is the first step in taking away other rights like the right for you ladies to vote, the the minorities, oh wait they are already doing that. Got a proper state id with a pic and most up to date info so we can find you when you don’t agree with all our rules? To poor for an ID, too bad, cause your too poor to matter, but please follow all the new rules we are setting in place.

    I am sick of this stupid bullshit. It’s like the Republicans are just trying to be as ridiculous as possible to prevent from getting into office. Like they just wanna not try at all. I mean they gotta know there tactics isn’t gonna win them anything, right? I can’t imagine any woman will vote republican, I know the minorities are not going to but they gotta get to the polls. I guess there really hoping they can get that ID requirement thing to pass. Idiots!!!!!!!!!!

    BTW just understand that not all men feel this kind of immoral juvenile shit. We gotta have nothing but complete respect, faith and love for our mothers, sisters, daughters, grand mothers, wives, and partners. Women are the true driving force of the world, not men, they just bully there way around.

    • Common Sense says:

      I’m pretty sure you’re not actually a man, and if you are, you are a shame to your gender. Do not be ashamed to BE A MAN, be ashamed of BAD MEN. Women are not THE driving force in the world, but they are a necessary part of the HUMAN RACE. Quit trying to gain acceptance in a female-dominated forum by giving up your (non-existant) testicles.

  25. Dutch Girl says:

    This article is extremely one sided. Speaking as someone who currently has a “fetus” inside of her body, I can say that the precious child inside of women should also have rights. For some reason we are all about a woman’s right to kill a kicking living baby. It is also human and doesn’t just become so at birth. If someone were to stab my belly right now he/she would go to jail for murder, but if I decide I don’t want or need this baby, I can kill it freely. So sad. I agree that women are not cattle, but in this war of rights we often forget how killing her own child affects a woman emotionally. She may enter into the decision completely confident and years later still be suffering emotionally from the actions. Let’s stop being selfish and thinking only of our wants and needs and start thinking about the miracle of life inside and what he/she needs.

    • LadyGrey says:

      Dutch Girl, I completely appreciate your point of view – I have 2 wonderful children myself. HOWEVER, I think you need to look back at what you said and think about not treating another adult woman as a child herself. You said, ” we often forget how killing her own child affects a woman emotionally;” I say – that’s HER problem – not yours, not mine. She made the choice; she has to live with that choice – consider it the lifelong penalty she pays, and STOP trying to force your moral compass onto other people. We all make our own choices, have our own interaction (or lack thereof) with the divine, and we all live. Mandating one moral code over another does nothing but create more strife. I respect that you are pro-life – I almost died to have both of my children and would never be able to abort a child, BUT that does NOT mean I have the right to impose my personal beliefs along those lines on any other woman in America. Last I checked we were free citizens of this country, and I intend to hold to that.
      For others – if you haven’t read Margaret Atwood, _The Handmaid’s Tale_, it is a must read in this political climate – women are reduced to Old Testament level slavery and sexual/social treatment. This would probably be the far right’s view of the “proper” way for the world to function…
      in peace…

    • Tis isnt an issue of pro life or prochocie, if, god forbid, your child dies while in you, this law will mean you must carry its corpse as it rots and kills you, painful, horrifying, inhuman and prolonged. you will never live even close long enough to reach term.

      These men think you are cattle. Do you seriously want these men making the laws that govern your body and protect your children? What about your female children?! Just because they’re seemingly pro life doesn’t mean you defend the, defend those who are atleast reasonable in their aims and laws for prolife.

      You’re using an age old general arguement for prolife but that’s not the issue here for this specific situation.

    • d julien says:

      Please also consider that after giving up a baby for adoption, mothers years later can still be suffering emotionally from that action. The point here is that while fetuses do have certain “rights”, they are not fully human and do not have the same rights as a newly born infant. (Just ask the IRS when you try to get an exemption for your fetus). This is not an all or nothing issue but there are many valid reasons for ending a pregnancy and I believe it is ultimately up to the mother and her conscience…..

    • Because I’m sure carrying a dying child inside you who will then be delivered half-alive only to die in minutes later won’t affect your emotions too. This bill is more emotionally damaging than any abortion.
      The argument that all women emotionally suffer from abortions is old, tired, and utterly false. Most women feel a sense relief because their know their own lives and whether or not they’re in a position to raise a child. You don’t know their lives better than they do; what works for you, Dutch Girl, doesn’t work for every other woman. Stop being selfish and feeling like you deserve to tell women what to do with their own lives.

  26. sillyoldme says:

    Was this bill written entirely without any physician input at all? “In order for a pregnancy to be considered “medically futile,” the fetus must be diagnosed with an irreversible chromosomal or congenital anomaly that is “incompatible with sustaining life after birth.” The Georgia “fetal pain” bill also stipulates that the abortion must be performed in such a way that the fetus emerges alive.”

    That is incomprehensible. What is the reason for it? And it means, as I read it, that a C-Section would have to be done. C-Sections are surgical procedures that require hospitalization; complications (such as infections,blood loss, blood clots in the lungs) afterward can prolong hospitalization– all of which are costly to insurers. And we all end up paying for it.

    Another thing while I’m on the insurance side of this: adding to the evidence that this bill was unsullied by any physician’s input is that it prohibits insurers from paying for “spontaneous abortions” –which is the actual medical term for “miscarriage” and is the way a “miscarriage” is coded for insurance. “Miscarriage” is not a medical term.

    So, where was the Georgia Medical Association when this bill was being debated? In fact, where was the Georgia Obstetrical-Gynecological Association? and last but not least, where was the Georgia Nurses Association?

    • Jennifer says:

      Actually there were a number of doctors who attempted to speak during debate last week – they were all opposed to the bill. They were called liars by the “well-informed” bill’s sponsors and their opinions were completely disregarded.

  27. sillyoldme says:

    And here’s another thing: It’s highly likely that a compromised fetus will die during any procedure—then what? Is everyone involved (Mom, Dad, MD, Nurse, O.R. Tech, anesthesiologist) arrested? Do they have a trial? Do they all go to jail? How much will all of that cost us–financially as a society, not only the legal cost but how about the loss of that family’s livelihood, the professional skills of the medical team that can no longer practice? Because a 20-week fetus without a spinal cord, or without a brain, or without kidneys or working lungs, isn’t going to “emerge alive” from any procedure.

    • Exactly. That means that no matter what, a doctor won’t perform an abortion because they can be arrested, maybe even lose their license. It’s not a real ‘exception.’ It just sounds like one!

  28. Michelle says:

    Livestock have 6 layers of tissue that comprise the placenta separating maternal blood from the fetus, humans have direct contact with the fetus, so if the stillborn fetus undergoes necrosis and infection occurs, that’s a death sentence for the mother right there! Septicemia! It’s NOT a good thing. This along with some seriously messed up logic and the fact that this is nobody’s business to begin with…. What the hell!?? These people have no idea! Where the heck is the medical and veterinary input on this?

    • What makes you think that these legis-bozos care? The woman is born already — they’re making laws for the “pre-born.” The mother whose baby dies in utero has no claim on any “right to life” since she’s not in utero herself.

  29. Here we go again—– back alley abortions and women traveling to different states or even countries to have the procedures done.

  30. john cunningham says:

    I would like some one from this organization to contact me in reguards to UNATHORIZED CHEMICALLY INDUCED ABORTIONS (From Hydrofracking)at frikingfrack@live.com , and endocrine disruption (it’s not left or right) there is no exemption even for the polititions who vote for “YA” or “NA”. It’s going to effect every family, if it hasn’t already. Generation’s to come are going to be effected and someone/somebody needs to be held resposible for this. THANX jc.

  31. anndanotherthing says:

    I think the women of Georgia should secede from the state–like run really fast and far. Where are the heads of those reps?? Where the sun don’t shine? Mom was RIGHT–”You know where their brains are”. Perhaps when the women have moved out, these men can satisfy their need for the “weaker sex” in ways that won’t require legislation about abortion and choice.

  32. Michelle says:

    This is such a weird concept…That fetuses feel pain. Not long ago, twenty years, I gave birth to a boy child. I was told by everyone EVERYONE at the hospital that he, as a newborn, would FEEL NO PAIN at being circumcised without anesthesia. It didn’t seem right to me, and, it turns out that I was correct: He could definitely feel pain. So, now, those same people that never wanted to give anesthesia to any infant undergoing a surgical procedure now claim that there should be no abortion because of pain? Alright, I’ll buy. If there needs to be an abortion, at any stage of pregnancy—and there are always VALID reasons—then anesthetize appropriately. Problem solved.

    To clarify: These “powers that be” have claimed that: 1: Infants feel no pain, at least until now 2: Fetuses FEEL PAIN, now that they want them to. 3: Now, in the 21st century these wizards of oz have decided that WOMEN who are in extremis due to a problem pregnancy FEEL NO PAIN. 4: Mental anguish of a mother has no value if a piece of tissue (and a male ego) is involved.

    • I’m so glad you brought that up! It’s maddening, isn’t it? There are so many other ways to protect live babies, and they are focusing on the “lives” of fetuses while snatching rights from women! Every single living person has the right to control over their own body.

  33. Squaregirl says:

    Don’t they recognize women can still go to a neighboring State for the procedure? They’re just forcing unwanted babies on poor women who don’t have that option.

  34. Acklebee says:

    I wish for a moment they could be women, or for a few years. They have no idea. They need to be deprived of sex, viagra and all else until they wake up.

  35. eveningbloom86 says:

    So if this analogy he used plays out across the board, will we then be gelding the men of society so that they will be “calmer, quieter, gentler and potentially more suitable as an everyday working animal”? Gosh, then we wouldn’t need abortions!

    Also, being from farm country, I’ve seen how most fetuses come about on farms (the majority of which are factory-farms.) Females are force-bred or inseminated, sometimes yolked into place to insure that they’ll conceive. It is a calculated business meant to breed the best livestock. I realize that isn’t the current issue at hand, but even allowing a space in governing of the people to let this kind of abhorrent analogy stand in for rational thought forces me to ponder what may be next for women’s reproductive rights.

  36. Phillip says:

    Of course I hear your concerns about the larger issue here. However, as an advocate for accurate and responsible journalism, I take serious issue with “Ms.” magazine’s gross misrepresentation of Senator England’s comment regarding calves, and the magazine’s blatant exaggeration that “everyone else” must refer to the bill as the “women as livestock bill.” All reasonable people who know how to read certainly must see through this thinly veiled misrepresentation. To read his comment with integrity and honesty, it’s clear Rep. England did not say women should be mistreated as or equated to livestock, as this article insinuates. Rather, he stated — and I feel strongly obliged to agree — that human life should not enjoy even fewer protections than those granted to mere cattle; that a woman and the baby in the womb should NOT be treated as LESS VALUABLE than animal life. Again, there is a long and complex discussion to be had over the issue of abortion and a woman’s right to choose it. But my beef with this article (no pun intended — well maybe a little..) is the slanderous caricature painted of those who merely suggest a baby should not be aborted after 20 weeks. For moderation’s sake, we should remember that huge numbers and conservatives and liberals alike agree that abortion after 20 weeks is unacceptable in light of modern understanding of fetal development. (Not everyone agrees. On the extreme ends, some respected philosophers oppose even birth control while others support abortion for a limited time after delivery.) For clarity’s sake, we should recall this bill in its final form exempts pregnancies that are “medically futile” and those in which the woman’s life or health is threatened. This bill is not a “war on women.” Although if one relies on this slanted piece and its sensational headline, I can understand it appearing disgusting at first blush. We have such a limited amount of time and energy in this life; I hope we’ll invest it in protesting wars which take human life, not being misled or dragged into battles against those who seek to protect it.

  37. Michelle says:

    Two words: Womb envy

  38. Lola Getz says:

    I was born and raised in Georgia and when I left, it wasn’t enough for me just to leave the state — I left the country. I’m bookmarking this article to refer to the next time someone asks me why I don’t live there any more.

  39. Lola Getz says:

    I’d like to add something to my previous comment. Several years ago during my second pregnancy, my baby died in utero at 16 weeks gestation. There were no abnormalities that could be determined by ultrasound; the fetal heart simply stopped beating one day. If the same thing happened to me under this new Georgia law, I wonder if I would be forced to carry a dead fetus in my womb until my body finally ejected it eventually, because in my case there was no way a procedure could have been done to make sure the fetus emerged alive (as stipulated in the law).

    For that matter, it seems to me that the point of insisting that abortions must be performed in such a way that the fetus emerges alive is to inflict as much emotional and physical pain as possible on the woman having the abortion. That’s what this is really about.

    • Yvonne Taylor says:

      Lola, I too had a baby who when I was 6 months pregnant, it died. The Dr. said they could leave it and it would not harm me and would probably remain there forever! Having a baby die inside you is a very traumatic experience, for a woman to carry a dead baby is cruel, I was very mad at my Dr. for even saying that to me. I also agree…what are they thinking… insisting that abortions must be performed in such a way that the fetus emerges alive! These “good ol boys” are sick puppies.

    • Mom of two says:

      I think you should really go online and do some research, the actual bill is there to be read. I took a look at what it says, and this article has taken it out of context. To sum it up, it basically says that if in a medical need for a women to have an abortion after 20 weeks due to something that may cause her her death or the babies death then the baby should be delivered in a manner that would allow it to survive and be given medical treatment. There are a lot more words and subtexts around that, but that is the jist of it. It was put in place NOT to cause the mother trama but to try to save the life of the baby if its possible. I would imagine they felt the need to include that to make sure people take the circumstances cautiously, its not an abortion to kill the baby but to actually try to save both.

  40. Mormon Philosophy says:

    It’s funny how the same group of men who are so concerned about women’s right to make decisions about their body or their future with that child, are the same hypocrites that during the 40’s, 50’s and 60’s were free-loving it all over the place. What they don’t want to talk about is the cost of living was much cheaper back then. And those men in the religious group’s want to marry little girls at the age of 13 (thirteen) years old and have all their wives living in one section. I think these men have really lost a screw or two. Call there bluff and have all these kids and when they don’t pay (child support), put their asses right in jail.

  41. There should be a law criminalizing male masturbation or fertile heterosexual couples having sex while using condoms. With every ejaculation they’re murdering millions of potential American citizens! We have to protect every form of human life!

  42. I would really like to see a man get knocked up by being gang raped, have to go through the whole hospital procedure of getting swabbed and photographed with the bright lights and paper gown and have to keep re-telling the story of what happened. Have the police take his cloths for evidence, go home in a t-shirt and sweats and hospital slippers. THEN find out he’s knocked up. Go to the doctor, only to have the doctor interrogate him as to if he’s 100% sure the baby isn’t from his partner or the rape. The doctor denies the abortion until there is enough fluid to take a DNA sample. Sample is taken and now he waits for the results, but something went wrong when the doctor took the sample and punctured the fetus! Results are so slow coming back. Something is wrong with the baby. Oh No! It’s 20 weeks! DNA results come back, it’s a rape baby. He’s starting to get awful pain from the baby. Goes back to doctor. Baby is dying, nothing they can do. Past 20 weeks, He’ll just have to deal with the pain and wait for the baby to die. It takes a few weeks of intense pain, but the baby dies. He’s not doing so well emotionally. He’s still traumatized from the rape, the pregnancy, the painfulness of the baby dying inside him and now there’s no way to get it out. He waits, carrying the dead baby. Nothing happens. He waits longer, he’s starting to feel sick and getting a fever. He waits a few more days, it’s been weeks, the baby’s still inside rotting away. He’s becoming very sick. Has to be admitted to the hospital. His blood has become toxic because of the rotting flesh of the baby circulating inside him. The doctors can do nothing to help but put him on pain killers until his blood becomes so toxic it kills him. NOW DON’T YOU THINK IT WOULD BE NICE FOR ONE OF THESE REPUBLICAN LAW MAKING MEN TO FEEL A SITUATION LIKE THIS? DO YOU THINK THAT ANY ONE OF THESE MEN CONSULTED A PHYSICIAN TO GET THE TRUTH OF WHAT HAPPENS TO A WOMAN WHEN SHE IS FORCED TO CARRY A DEAD FETUS IN HER BODY? DO THEY NOT KNOW BASIC SCIENCE? THAT DEAD THINGS DECAY. DO THEY NOT HAVE WIVES, MOTHERS, DAUGHTERS, SISTERS? ARE THEY UNAWARE THAT WOMEN ARE EMOTIONAL CREATURES AND PRODUCE HORMONES WHEN PREGNANT THAT MAKE US EVEN MORE EMOTIONAL? HOW WOULD THEY FEEL IF THEIR WIFE HAD A LATE TERM MISCARRIAGE AT 36 WEEKS AND HIS LAW MADE HER WAIT UNTIL THE BABY CAME OUT ON ITS OWN. HOWEVER, SHE HAD TO WAIT 8 WEEKS FOR THE BABY TO COME AND WHEN IT DID IT HAPPENED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT AND THE BABY CAME OUT IN PIECES, LEGS, ARMS, HEAD KIND OF FALLING OFF AND HE HAD TO HELP BECAUSE IT WAS HAPPENING SO FAST THAT THE EMTs TOOK TOO LONG TO GET THERE. IMAGINE THAT IMAGE. AFTER ALL SHE’S ONLY A PIECE OF LIVESTOCK. SURE WE STILL HAVE THE 15TH AMENDMENT BUT NOW IT’S ALMOST ALL WE HAVE.

  43. If I was raped and I lived in this state and got pregnant by the rapist and was denied abortion, I would commit suicide.

  44. Yvonne Taylor says:

    Rep. Terry England sounds like an ignorant “hick”. Perhaps men who get any unmarried woman pregnant should be castrated by his way of thinking.

  45. The is simple, and always will be. If the majority of the women in Georgia were to pladge not to have sex until this law is repealed, how long would it take to see it disappear. How many would be filing rape charges on these, “Women are Chattel,” ass clowns, as well. Freedom equals Responsibility, and Responsibility equals Freedom. Responsibility is the ability to respond. The more you take on Responsibilty, the more Freedom you gain. Stop talking and move to action.

  46. Mysterious Stranger says:

    I feel very uncomfortable posting this, not in the least because I am male. As a dude, I feel like it is not my place to post an opinion on such a female issue, but… couldn’t all this controversy be avoided if men and women both took abstinence more seriously?

  47. Harry834 says:
  48. Darlene says:

    News flash: although I am ABSOLUTELY pro-choice & abhor all things Republican I am also appalled by the glaring speciesism in the 1st response & most likely in other responses. For the most part in this supposedly “advanced” nation livestock do a lot more than “eat, poop & have litters”. They lead horrific lives so that we can eat them.

  49. This is disgusting. These Georgian Republicans are only caring about themselves and not about women who SHOULD have the right to have an abortion. This is sick and comparing women to animals? That’s just typical and so incredibly wronggggg.

  50. Men are the livestock here, men are being the pigs.

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