Background reading:

• “The Army Allows Soldiers Charged With Violent Crimes to Leave the Military, Rather Than Face Trial”
• “Another Suspicious Death at a Texas Military Base Shows the Urgency of Addressing Military Sexual Harassment and Assault”
• “Dobbs’ Effect on Military Women: ‘Our Fighting Force Is Hindered and Our Security Is at Risk’”

Transcript:

00:00:06.2  Michele Goodwin:

Welcome to On the Issue with Michele Goodwin at Ms. Magazine. As you know, we’re a show that reports, rebels, and we tell it just like it is. On our show, history matters. We examine the past as we think about the future, and in this episode, I’m speaking with Melissa McCafferty on very important issues involving sexual assault in our U.S. militaries. 

And before I go further, I want to warn our listeners with a trigger warning, because we will be speaking about sexual harassment and sexual assault and its pervasiveness throughout the U.S. armed services. In fact, at least 15.7 percent of military personnel and veterans have reported military sexual trauma. That is a percentage that’s likely an undercount. It’s the shame and it’s the stigma that is associated with reporting that often keeps people from reporting matters of sexual assault and violence. So, what’s more is that perpetrators are rarely, if ever, held accountable.

According to a recent ProPublica investigation, more than half of the 900 soldiers who were allowed to leave the Army in the past decade, rather than go to trial, were accused of violent crimes. In the face of a culture that, some would argue, silences and disenfranchises people who’ve been sexual assault victims, whether they are women, girls, boys, men, in the face of a culture like that, what bravery does it take to come forward? That’s why we have a very special guest with us, Melissa McCafferty. She’s a former lieutenant with the United States Coast Guard, where she served for 12 years.

After being sexually assaulted while in the Coast Guard Academy, she came forward years later, only to experience what she describes as gatekeeping, which we talk about in this interview, and since her sexual assault, she has become an advocate for military sexual assault survivors, including testifying before the Senate in 2023. She recently received her juris doctorate from Georgetown University Law Center and serves as a young lawyer representative at the American Bar Association.

Melissa, it’s a real pleasure to have you in this podcast episode with me. You recently testified in front of members of our Congress on your experiences being sexually assaulted while in the Coast Guard Academy, which had a profound impact on your life, your mental health, and your wellbeing, and first, I want to thank you so very much for being willing to be with me and our audience, and I want to start off by asking if you would share a bit about what it was like, that experience, going before members of Congress to share your story?

00:03:50.8  Melissa McCafferty:

Yeah. No, well, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate being here and having the opportunity to speak with you on this. It was definitely an intimidating experience, to say the least. It’s something that’s been near and dear to my heart for a very long time. I absolutely love the Coast Guard. Our organization is, in my opinion, the best military branch out there, primarily because we’re so focused on the humanitarian aspect of the mission. We tend to save lives instead of taking them, and that’s something that immediately attracted me when I was a young kid growing up in Michigan.

So, it was only natural that I would join the Coast Guard through the academy than any of the other branches. So, I have to say, before I kind of go any further, that I absolutely love this organization. I am loyal to this organization, and doing this brought me…you know, as I stated in my testimony, didn’t bring me any joy. I had repeatedly tried to resolve this internally, before realizing that it was never going to be resolved internally and that it had to be done through external pressure, either through the media or through the Senate, which is, ultimately, what it came down to.

So, it was both cathartic, in the sense that I was able to tell my story and was able to bring voices to those who are unable to speak currently due to retaliation fears or because they’re still in and concerned about their careers, or to those who no longer have a voice because they’ve either died by suicide or some other reason. So, I felt that it was an extension of the oath that I had originally taken nearly a decade ago, a decade plus ago, actually. It was an extension of that that I had fulfilled in me to those who served alongside and beneath me.

00:05:44.7  Michele Goodwin:

And your testimony, it was in front of the United States Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Government Affairs Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, and I’ll read just a little bit from your testimony. You shared with the Senate that the emotional toll of Coast Guard missions is hard enough to bear without incurring additional damage inflicted by senior leaders who know what’s wrong, but who fail to take action.

And you went on to express that not only has the Coast Guard failed to remedy this toxic culture, but at times, you say, “I have witnessed leadership going so far as to protect the offenders,” and then you say, “I fear that the cost of their failure has endangered the mental and physical health of too many women and men in the Coast Guard.” Can you share a bit, then, about what it was that you experienced and perhaps what you saw taking shape on the ground, and again, I’ll remind our listeners of a trigger warning for any people who may be sensitive to what is about to be shared.

00:07:04.2   Melissa McCafferty:

Yeah, so, that’s a very good question, and you know, there’s a lot of complexity within that question. It’s certainly not a broad-brush statement, because I would…you know, as I told the Senate, I would caveat that there exist good leaders, good people, enlisted men and women, officer men and women. They do exist.

However, as I also stated, they are often overruled and overranked and outranked by those above them. So, unfortunately, what I’ve observed throughout my 12-year career is that those who can stay the longest don’t necessarily do so because they are the most talented. They do so because they deal in transactions, and the transactions are, largely, self-fulfilling transactions that result in benefits to themselves and not necessarily the organization.

Now, I understand this is a very blanketed statement, and having worked at the senior-most level of our organization…I worked on the Commandant’s Advisory Group in Washington, DC for Admiral Zukunft, who was before Admiral Schultz, the commandant of the Coast Guard, who was ultimately responsible for uncovering what is now known as Operation Fouled Anchor, briefing Congress, and bringing individuals and perpetrators under this authority and jurisdiction to account. Now, Admiral Schultz failed to do that, and I think this is not necessarily an isolated situation. This is what I would call endemic at this point.

It is endemic at the senior-most levels of our organization, particularly when it comes to the officers and the senior executives within the Coast Guard, and I say this because when I worked on the Commandant’s Advisory Group at headquarters, I was often struck, to put it politely, by almost a perceived inability to consistently do the right thing, the moral thing, the moral obligation that we hold as officers and are charged with via our oath and statutory and mandated authorities to fulfill on behalf of ourselves, our institution, and the American public.

And this could range from everything regarding personnel retention and recruiting matters, to sexual assault, retaliation, and bullying, and I’ve noticed that over the three years I spent at the Commandant’s Advisory Group, this was a persistent and pervasive pattern by those same senior leaders, who would then go on to cover up Operation Fouled Anchor. They would go on to cover up the most visible case of Glenn Sulmasy, and they would go on to cover up the 2015 Culture of Respect report, which was also just released a few weeks ago.

00:09:50.4  Michele Goodwin:

So, you came to know this in a very personal way. It wasn’t just abstract. Can you tell us about what that experience was when you came forward?

00:10:03.4  Melissa McCafferty:

Yeah. So, that’s a great question, and you know, it is a very sensitive topic. So, I would reiterate the trigger warning. Is that, you know, it was very telling to me. One of the first weeks I was a cadet at the academy, at the Coast Guard Academy, we had a dinner with senior first-class cadet women, and at this dinner, they were giving us advice on how to handle our summer assignments, and during the summer at the Coast Guard Academy, you don’t go home.

You actually go to work, and you go on Coast Guard ships and Coast Guard small boat stations throughout the country, and we’re all assigned all over the world for a period of 6 to 8 weeks on these ships, cutters, small boat stations, et cetera, and these women, who had spent two previous summers themselves, proceeded to issue warnings to us junior women. We’re brand new. We had just finished our boot camp, if you will, and we’re preparing for the academic year, and I distinctly remember them saying, you have an opportunity to be one of three things. You can’t be both.

You can’t be all three, but you need to pick and choose one, and you need to be very careful and deliberate with how you go about it, and this is what they said. This is what they said. You can choose during your summer assignments and when you commission to be a bitch, a slut, or a lesbian. You need to pick one. If you’re a bitch, people will leave you alone, but they won’t respect you. If you’re a slut, that’s obvious unto itself, and if you’re a lesbian, they also won’t touch you, but you are at high risk of being discharged under what was then Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, and they continued to expand on this.

And they said, unfortunately, the current reality is when you go out to the fleet in your summer, sexual assault is rampant. Everyone knows this. It’s here at the academy. It’s here, you know, in the fleet. It’s everywhere, and to best protect yourself, you need to establish, right away, which of the three you want to be. So, that was the first time it ever came to my attention, and then, with my own personal experiences, it later cemented that to a point where I was so afraid of even speaking up after my sexual assault occurred.

I said nothing. I didn’t even tell a friend. I didn’t tell my best friend. I didn’t tell my roommate. I didn’t tell a friend, who was a civilian. I told no one, and this had occurred when I was a freshman. So, I was brand new. I had just sat in on this dinner where these women said you could be one of three things, and then, shortly thereafter, on a long weekend, which is a three-day weekend, I was repeatedly raped over the course of three days in a hotel room in New York, and I felt there was no option for me but to stay silent.

00:12:57.2  Michele Goodwin:

I am so sorry to hear that and that you experienced that, and as a freshman, how old were you when this all happened?

00:13:12.1  Melissa McCafferty:

That’s a great question, Dr. Goodwin. I want to say I was 18, perhaps, maybe 19, and if I had been 19, I would’ve just turned 19 because I’m an August birthday. So, I want to say either 18 or very early 19-year-old.

00:13:32.0  Michele Goodwin:

If you’re just joining me now, I’m speaking with Melissa McCafferty. Melissa is a former lieutenant with the United States Coast Guard, where she served for 12 years, before becoming a lawyer and coming forward to tell her story about sexual assault while as a member of the Coast Guard Academy as a student. Let’s turn back to our conversation. 

So, also then hearing the first part that you shared, is hearing here are these three options. These are not the options that you were imagining when you were a kid and thinking I want to go save lives, for sure, and then hearing that these are the options before you, and then such a horrific experience, and so, you held that in and didn’t tell anyone. Was there a time in which you felt, okay, I can now go forward with this, or what was it that triggered when you did come forward the first time?

00:14:39.5  Melissa McCafferty:

Yeah, so, I actually came forward twice at the academy. Once was with Glenn Sulmasy himself. He had repeatedly verbally harassed me, made sexual comments to me throughout the course of my four years at the academy, and I reached out to a senior officer at the academy, who was also a faculty member.

And I discussed with her my concerns, and if it’s happening to me, it’s probably happening to a lot of other people, and the impression I received from that conversation, which reflected the reality, is, you know, you can make a report. You can make an unrestricted report, and we can bring this out into the public, but if you do that, he is protected by some very senior and very powerful people, and it will likely be the end of your career, which hadn’t even started at that point. I was still in school.

So, I came to the conclusion, at the end of that conversation, that even though it was…you know, and I hate to say this word. Relatively minor, because it’s still harassment. It’s still sexual harassment, and it was done by an individual in a significant power position, and I realized, at that point, that I was smart to have kept my mouth shut when I was a freshman, because even though this involved verbal harassment, if they can’t even tackle verbal harassment, how on Earth are they going to tackle rape?

And so, I tried to do it with Glenn Sulmasy. I did, and I tried again in 2012, but was told the exact same thing in the fleet. At 2012, I was in the fleet, so I brought it up again when he had requested nude photographs with me in exchange for a law school recommendation letter, and I brought it up to someone on the ship then, and they also reiterated what had been told to me previously by this officer. So, at that point, I realized he was utterly untouchable.

So, I never disclosed any of my personal sexual assaults, and two did occur at the academy, because when I did report the sexual harassment, nothing was done, and to the last end of your question, why am I here today? I’m here today because I had…largely, after my suicide attempt in 2017, I sought extensive psychiatric treatment. I was in a facility for 11 out of 12 months consecutively, and it took years. It took absolute years to get my sense of rationality back, my sanity back.

It took a very long time, and I was finally in a place where I could put away that chapter of my life and start my career as an attorney here in DC, when I received a text message from a colleague of mine, still in the Coast Guard, and this text message was a link to an article that featured Glenn Sulmasy, and he was trying to create a “women’s business college of choice,” which stunned me. It absolutely stunned me, because it was happening when I was there in 2007 to 2011, and here we are at the beginning of 2023, and he’s now creating a civilian college for women.

And it just…it was beyond the pale, honestly, Dr. Goodwin. It was beyond the pale that we enabled a known sexual predator not only to retire with benefits and a fully-funded government pension, but then, as I would later discover, we then proceeded…we, being the Coast Guard, proceeded to write him a letter of recommendation endorsing him and attesting to his character, which enabled him to receive two positions at civilian colleges as a provost and a president, and at this point, I felt compelled to speak up.

I had been silenced multiple times throughout my 12-year career. Culminated in, you know, a suicide attempt, and I just didn’t have the emotional bandwidth or the mental capacity to do it before, but I realized that if I didn’t say something and step up, then the likelihood that anyone would was very slim. So, I actually reached out to CNN and said, hey, I don’t know if this individual is on your radar, but if he is not, he ought to be, and I gave him the information on Glenn Sulmasy.

00:19:02.9  Michele Goodwin:

Well, and in fact, via that communication with CNN, you shared that you say, and I quote, “I’ve repeatedly witnessed senior leaders dismiss substantiated reports of harassment, assault, abuse, and retaliation in order to shield fellow officers and friends from any form of disciplinary action.” I mean, that then, it must be a tremendous…it’s more than a hill. It’s kind of mountainous then to think about how does one overcome? How do you hike up and get over to the other side when it is so incredibly difficult, and you spoke about in your testimony, you used the word gatekeepers. You said that they implement safeguards within each other, for each other, and you say that you call these people gatekeepers, and time and time again, you would go to these gatekeepers, but they protect each other. Do you want to expound upon that just a little bit?

00:20:09.2  Melissa McCafferty:

Yeah. So, I think gatekeepers, from what I’ve observed, most notably at the senior-most levels, are implemented by senior leaders, including officers and senior executives, to kind of shield themselves from, ultimately, taking the responsibility that is incumbent upon them to have. So, when they create…

00:20:27.2  Michele Goodwin:

It’s kind of like a complicity, a complicit bias almost.

00:20:32.4  Melissa McCafferty:

It is absolutely complicit bias. It is a reaffirming bias. It is complicit bias, and it is systemic, and they do this so that they don’t have to take responsibility for things that either don’t make it to their attention or things that do make it to their attention, but are grossly mitigated and / or minimized by these gatekeepers, and as I stated in my testimony, time and time again, I had come before two of my gatekeepers…

Two of these gatekeepers with legitimate problems, including retention problems, strategy problems, operational problems, assets that we currently had in operation with problems backed by data, and I was prohibited, many times, from bringing these matters to the commandant’s attention by these gatekeepers. So, it’s no surprise to me to learn that Glenn Sulmasy…you know, and I reference him not in the sense that this is an isolated event. This is a series of hundreds of events.

There have been hundreds of these. I’ve witnessed several myself. I’ve experienced at least four personally, and I’ve heard from hundreds of other women and men, enlisted and officers alike, that this consistently occurs, and they utilize these gatekeepers to abdicate their responsibility as an officer to the oath and under the Uniform Code of Military Justice to basically plead ignorance. Like, if I didn’t know it, it’s not an issue. Therefore, it’s not my fault, and we know that’s not true. We know that’s not true. So, that’s why I said what had to be said.

00:22:04.8  Michele Goodwin:

I want to take a moment to come back to something that you said, because, so often, there is a shock and surprise that people seem to express when sexual assault is talked about and revealed, and you mentioned the mental health trauma that goes with it, and it seems to me that there’s far less attention on understanding just what that trauma can be, and since you opened up a door to it, I’m wondering if you might be able to help us and my listeners understand what that emotional trauma, that psychological trauma, is like when you’re working within an institution that you’re loyal to, that you think is really, really important, but at the same time, it’s such a damaged space, as well, and a space that’s damaging others.

00:22:59.8  Melissa McCafferty:

Yeah, that’s a great question. There is definitely a lot of cognitive dissonance that I held between my aspirations, my core values, the Coast Guard core values, the Coast Guard mission, and then the reality that I was confronted with, and they definitely did not align. There was absolutely a disconnect between what we are taught as officers at the academy, which is, you know, allegedly, one of the most prestigious academies in the world.

And what I saw in terms of conduct…and this dissonance, this disconnect was astounding, because I firmly believed, when I joined in July of 2007, that I was joining part of something that was greater than myself, that did work on behalf of humanity, that cared for people that we serve. I did truly believe that, and then when I graduated and earned my commission into the active-duty fleet, I quickly realized that that was not the case, and it was very disheartening, because I did work alongside some of the best men and women I will likely ever have the privilege of working with, you know?

But I also worked alongside some of the worst that I have ever met, and the spectrum, the continuum of this talent was really shocking and disappointing, and to go through the mental toll, I guess…like, speaking from a personal level, what happened to me in 2007 absolutely stayed with me. It impacted my sense of trust, my emotional security, my emotional stability. It created cognitive distortions that took me decades to work on. I was unable to be in rooms with men alone. I was very, very careful when I was in rooms with men alone, and often had 911 on speed dial.

And it just impacted every single aspect of my life, both personal and professional, and it was a slow and insidious burn, and it just grew and grew and grew over the years, because we’re often taught, particularly as officers, that you need to kind of suck it up and move forward. So, I never sought treatment. I never went to therapy. I never did anything because I had learned, at a very young age, that you just need to push through it and push through it and push through it, and eventually, through time, you’ll be in a position where you can change.

So, I clung to that idea. I clung to that idea that, eventually, I could be of a rank where I could enact some change and truly do some good, but the reality is, when I was at that position where I could do change, nothing was happening anyways, and it was this stark reality that kind of cemented my mental breakdown, if you will, and contributed to my suicide attempt, because, at that point, it had been 12 years, nearly 12 years of unresolved trauma, both at the academy, in the fleet, everything from hurricane disaster relief and response, to search and rescue, to, you know, bridge jumpers.

You name it, we’ve seen it, we’ve done it, and then when you compound that with the trauma inflicted on you by those you’re supposed to trust, and then you see, at the very senior-most levels, that they’re actively trying to conceal it, you lose any sense of faith in anyone, specifically the institution, but also yourself, and the level of despair, I guess is the best word, the level of despair that I had when I realized this was unbelievable. It was just unbelievable that I had played by the rules, I had done what I was supposed to do.

And I had given this institution, this organization my all, and still, nothing was going to change, and that’s when I made the decision that night, on December 3, 2017, to do what I did. I came home from the Commandant’s Christmas Party. I will never forget it. I came home from the Commandant’s Christmas Party on December 3, 2017, during which I sat in the kitchen and was openly crying, sobbing, and very few people checked in on me. The gatekeepers that I work for actually said, like, we’ll see you tomorrow at work.

And I distinctly remember saying maybe, and that alone, to me, as an officer, as a person, as a member of humanity, would raise a significant red flag. If I had said something like that to somebody else and heard that as a response, I would immediately ask, what is going on? Are you okay? Instead, they just continued to walk out. So, I went home, and when I came into my apartment, I remember falling to my knees. I literally collapsed under this, like, emotional weight and toll, and it was then that I was like, I just cannot…I cannot do this anymore.

I cannot continue in this life, because if we in the Coast Guard are supposed to be the most humanitarian-oriented service, then how on Earth is the rest of the world supposed to function when we can’t even trust ourselves? And that’s when I made the decision to attempt suicide, and I am beyond lucky. I am absolutely beyond lucky to be here, to be quite frank. I don’t know what higher power interceded on my behalf. I have no idea. That’s a whole different realm, but I do know that I flatlined in the ambulance, and I flatlined at the hospital, and yet, I’m still here.

So, I speak about this honestly and candidly because this is a very real issue, and it’s not just impacting, you know, men and women in the Coast Guard. It’s impacting men and women in the fleet, men and women of the academy, and men and women in society at large, and the emotional toll that it takes on you over the period of years will ultimately bring you to your knees, and we have got to have some sort of understanding and compassion for that and those impacts if we’re to even make a dent in approaching this in the future.

00:29:11.6  Michele Goodwin:

If you’re just joining me now, this is Michele Goodwin, your host, and I’m joined by Melissa McCafferty. She recently testified before the United States Senate Committee on Homeland Security & Government Affairs Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations. Her testimony was about the emotional toll that she experienced, and so much more, associated with sexual violence in our armed services and what she experienced while she was, in fact, in college with the Coast Guard Academy. I return to that interview now.

I really appreciate you sharing that with us, and that was only six years ago, 2017, still not far away in one’s rearview mirror of life. You know, I want for our listeners to know that what you’re talking about is not isolated. For example, we know from studies that’ve been done on this that, throughout the military, there’s even something called military sexual trauma, which gives some idea of the wide depth of sexual assault within our militaries.

And I quote from part of an article published in Ms. Magazine about this that, for many service members, estimated at 1.3 million active-duty personnel, the reality of military sexual trauma and retaliation after reporting it is very familiar. So, one study, for example, notes that nearly 16 percent of military personnel and veterans have reported military sexual trauma, otherwise known as MST, which includes both harassment and assault. About 4 percent of men and about 39 percent of women.

So, it is widespread. I’m wondering, Melissa, if, after your suicide attempt, what motivated you then? Did you see that the fact that you survived as being a sign of the fact that you could get through this and become an advocate? I’m wondering what that was like, because, for so many people, that might’ve been also I survived it, and now I’ll just stay away. I’ll just be in my quiet space, but you took a different path.

00:32:14.9  Melissa McCafferty:

Yeah. It wasn’t always like that, to be honest. It wasn’t always like that, and I wish I could say otherwise, but I mean, the first…when I woke up in the hospital, my first impression was to underplay it, to lie, and to do anything I could to get back to work on time, and that’s a sad reality, Dr. Goodwin. That is the sad reality of where I was. I was so afraid that I would lose my career over this, that I was untruthful. I lied to the doctors about how much alcohol I was drinking. I lied about why I was having nightmares and flashbacks.

I told them I didn’t have any problems, and I was actually medically cleared within a month. I was medically cleared by the end of January 2018, and then I realized that I just couldn’t do it anymore. I had tried. I had tried for almost two months to pretend to fake my way through, and I couldn’t do it, and I was ultimately headed right back either to the grave or to the hospital. So, I turned myself in, if you will. I just said, I can’t do this anymore, and I need help.

And it was then that I finally got honest with myself about where I was, and at the time, I was utterly incapable of thinking of anyone, including myself. I was just existing, and I hate to say that, because it just sounds so depressing, but that’s where it is. I was in such a dark, dark place, that I didn’t want to wake up. I was rarely brushing my teeth, hardly ever showering, and had I not been institutionalized for as long as I did, I guarantee you I’d be dead.

So, it wasn’t like I had this immediate desire to come out and say, like, this is how we’re going to change the world. It was I was quite literally fighting to stay alive, and I was reluctantly fighting, because every single day, I had implicitly prayed and desired that I wouldn’t wake up, and if it weren’t for a team of incredible doctors, who sat with me in that silence, that dark pit of despair for a year, there’s no way I would be here, and even after that, even after I was, you know, reintegrated into the community, I still could only focus, in very limited aspects, on myself.

I had an inability. I had empathy fatigue. I had compassion fatigue. I just couldn’t exercise any level of understanding, because I was so unstable, so emotionally vulnerable, that I just couldn’t even think of anyone beyond myself, which, for me, historically, is the complete opposite of what I have done. I have always put others before myself, and I paid a dear price for it, and it took a long time for me to get used to being okay just taking care of myself and looking out for myself.

And you know, as I said, I wasn’t going to do or say anything, until I received that text message, and at that point, it had been, I think, what, 3 or 4 years of intense therapy, multiple psychiatric treatment facilities, rehab, getting sober, clearing my thoughts, putting some distance between me and the organization, and it was at that point that I was like, okay, you have the opportunity to look out for people who can no longer look after themselves, and I felt that if I had not done what I did, I would forever regret it.

00:35:51.6  Michele Goodwin:

It’s hard coming forward, and I know that, having come forward with my own story. Time goes by way too quickly. So, before I begin wrapping up in terms of asking you about how can Congress make a difference, what are the types of changes that need to be made, I want to circle back to something that I think that I see far too often in so many cases of individuals coming forward and being shut down, and that is blaming the victim. What’s your opinion and sense of that?

Do you have a sense that there is a culture of victim blaming within the military, for those who are sexually assaulted, that they weren’t just strong enough? They couldn’t sort of hack it? That it’s put on them that, somehow, they’re emotionally weak, that they’re mentally weak, that if they could keep up, these things wouldn’t happen, or even the sense that it’s just all made up, even though reports from the military are pretty conclusive that there are real, consistent traumas involving sexual assault and abuse that do take place across our militaries.

00:37:09.6  Melissa McCafferty:

Yeah. I mean, I think it’s absolutely both. I think it is a matter of the viewpoint from others that they must be weak, or they were too drunk, or they dressed a certain way, or you know, they put themselves in that situation, and they always look at the victim and the victim’s decisions, outfits, appearances, you name it, and I’ve seen both…I’ve seen this happen to both men and women.

And instead of focusing on the perpetrator, who is often one of the most well-liked, highly respected individuals at the unit, they’re very often hard workers. They’re charismatic. They’re charming. They know exactly what to do and say to disarm you, and instead of focusing on that behavior, they almost always focus on the victim and the victim’s choices and decisions that they made prior to the assault, and then they further penalize them, if they’re underage, for using alcohol or for engaging in fraternization, which is strictly prohibited between certain members.

And they use that kind of as an excuse to justify the behavior and / or mitigate the behavior, and at the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter what the person was wearing. It doesn’t really matter how much they had to drink. If they were stone-cold sober or they were beyond drunk, it doesn’t matter, because assault is still an assault. A rape is still a rape, and we fail to see that time and time again, and we just create this culture that makes it okay.

00:38:38.4  Michele Goodwin:

No, no, it’s so true, whether that’s in the military or civilian life, whether that’s happening with people that are adults or individuals that are teenagers and children, this sense of blaming. What did they wear? What did they eat? What did they drink? Where were they? They should’ve been someplace else, and what’s overlooked is that the assault took place. The rape took place, and you’ve mentioned a number of times that this is not just a trauma and issue with regard to women in the military, but that this also affects men, and I can imagine that some of my listeners might imagine how, and of course, it could be the very same ways in which this affects women, but if you might be able to share a little bit about that, and then we will turn to what can Congress do.

00:39:28.1  Melissa McCafferty:

Yeah, no, of course, and my apologies. I forgot to address the Congress part, because I do have some very concrete solutions we can take, but in terms of men, I would imagine…and this is purely my speculation, based off observations in the fleet and at the academy, that men will grossly underreport incidences of sexual assault and sexual harassment because, unfortunately, there is this culture, particularly in the military, that men are strong. They’re the alpha men. They’re the alpha males.

They’re the ones who, you know, we rely on terms of, like, strength and physique and all that good stuff. So, a lot of men just never, will never come forward and report anything, and those that do are immediately ostracized for being weak or effeminate, and they ascribe to them feminine qualities, which is beyond devastating, and in terms of my experiences, I know of two men, both of whom I would consider, you know, objectively very strong, very powerful men who were assaulted, sexually assaulted in the fleet, and at both times…the first one was he believes he was date raped.

He was drugged and then dragged and raped, and then, when he woke up, he had no clothes. Completely naked. No awareness of what happened. The second individual was at a party somewhere and drank well beyond what he should have, but you can’t provide consent when you’re that drunk, period. Like, you just can’t, and he was then raped that evening by another gentleman, and I think the shame that came with that, because he was a straight man being raped by another man, was one thing, and then the added component of I was too drunk.

It happened to me. It was my fault. The victim blaming was another component, and then the third component would be the military often elevates men as the strongest, the most powerful, et cetera, et cetera. I mean, that’s what the military does. We use lethal force for a reason, and when it happens to men, they’re almost always emotionally devastated to admit that they were assaulted, because it implies that they’re not true men.

00:41:56.0  Michele Goodwin:

And yet, there have been reports over time, over the decades, about men in the military sexually assaulting other men in the military or sexually assaulting other male civilians in places where the U.S. military has been, including in Afghanistan and Iraq, and so, I really do appreciate the fact that you made that known to members of Congress when you testified before the Senate committee, and even during our conversation now.

And so, in our podcast, we always turn to a silver lining. Where are there points of hope? And so, you testified before the Senate, and so, I’m wondering whether you see a point of hope with Congress in terms of what it is that they can do and should do? What’s within their reach, such that this doesn’t have to become a nightmare that just simply endures and that is attached to our military?

00:43:03.6  Melissa McCafferty:

Yeah. So, what was really heartening to hear at the Senate is, you know, them…the senator repeatedly stating that this is not a fire and forget moment, which is what frequently occurs. People come forward. They give testimony. They speak out, and then the organization or the institution or the perpetrator simply waits for everything to die out in terms of media coverage and in terms of heightened scrutiny, et cetera, and the mere fact that they’re even considering naming and shaming is another layer, because accountability…

You know, and I stated this in my oral testimony. I stated it in my written testimony. We need to hold people accountable, period. We have the ability. We have the authority. We largely have everything we already need, and yes, we can improve it in terms of policy and procedures, and I’m absolutely welcome to those initiatives, but right now, we largely have everything that we need to do what is right. We just need the willpower and the courage and conviction to do it.

So, if it comes down to naming and shaming, then, you know, I hate to say this, because as someone who recently graduated law school, like, everyone is entitled to due process. Everyone is entitled to a fair hearing, and everyone is entitled to a presumption of guilt, but when it comes to cases like Operation Fouled Anchor and when it comes to cases like Glenn Sulmasy, it is clear what has occurred.

And to this day, no one has been recalled from active duty…from retirement back to active duty to be held accountable under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which something the commandant, the current Coast Guard commandant, could do this evening, should she so choose, and either she’s unable to or otherwise unwilling to. I don’t know, and that’s the sad and tragic reality.

And I would say, you know, if she hears this, I would implore her to hold them accountable, to recall these individuals from retirement, to hold the senior executives accountable, to prosecute them under her already existing authority and jurisdiction via the UCMJ, and to show other senior leaders that this conduct will no longer be tolerated, because what I’ve seen, time and time again, is they punish the junior members.

They punish the enlisted members. They punish the junior officers, sometimes the midlevel officers, but I have very rarely seen a senior leader be held accountable for their decisions and their actions, and the message, whether it’s intentional or not, is that senior leaders are untouchable and otherwise immune to the rules that govern the rest of us, and if the commandant is willing and able, she could recall everyone tonight.

And I implore her to do so, and if she cannot, then I would request that she resign and let someone who is capable and willing to do it, do it. So, I don’t know if that necessarily comes from Congress. We can exert all the external pressures we want, but the authority and the jurisdiction ultimately lives with the commandant of the Coast Guard, and until she is willing and able to exercise her authority, it is unlikely that accountability will occur.

00:46:20.7  Michele Goodwin:

Melissa, I want to thank you so very much for joining me for your testimony before the Senate committee and for the bravery that you have shown and the commitment to others in coming forward, because I recognize that so much of what it is that you’re expressing is, of course, about your experience, but it is also about protecting other people who may come into these spaces, as well, and so, I thank you so very much for joining me and our community of listeners.

00:47:01.0  Melissa McCafferty:

Yeah, no, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

00:47:07.3  Michele Goodwin:

Guests and listeners, that’s it for today’s episode of On the Issues with Michele Goodwin at Ms. Magazine. I want to thank each of you for tuning in for the full story and engaging with us. We hope you’ll join us again for our next episode where you know we’ll be reporting, rebelling, and telling it just like it is.

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This has been your host Michele Goodwin reporting, rebelling, and telling it just like it is. On the Issues with Michele Goodwin is a Ms. Magazine joint production. Michele Goodwin and Kathy Spillar are our executive producers. Our producers for this episode are Roxy Szal, Oliver Haug, and also Allison Whelan. Our social media content producer is Sophia Panigrahi. The creative vision behind our work includes art and design by Brandi Phipps, editing by Will Alvarez and Natalie Hadland, and music by Chris J. Lee.