Transcript:

Welcome to The Long Way Home. A five-part limited series that journeys into the heart of substance use disorders and recovery. With a focus on women, people in recovery, vulnerable communities, and those who have traveled the long way home, we explore how addiction uniquely impacts pregnant people, mothers, adolescents, and young adults. 

Through conversations with leading experts, lawmakers, and people in recovery, we examine the intersection of addiction, the criminal legal system, systemic neglect, and the enduring effects of colonization. We center the right to recovery, recognizing it as a complex, lifelong process that deserves time, attention, and resources. 

This series is a space for truth telling, learning, and imagining a more just and supportive path home.

In this third episode of The Long Way Home, we explore the road to recovery, and life in recovery, with Cody Thompson.

00:00:03 Michele Goodman:

Cody, it’s such a pleasure to be with you. Thank you, so much, for joining me. One of the things that I find really impactful about what you’ve shared in the past, because you’ve previously joined us on the podcast where you generously shared your experience with addiction, and a life of long-term recovery. And for our listeners who may not have had the opportunity to listen to our July 9 episode, What’s Up With White Men? 

00:00:32 Cody Thompson:

Yeah, such a great episode.

00:00:35 Michele Goodman:

Thank you, so much, for joining us for that. Could you tell us a little bit about your life before recovery?

00:00:42 Cody Thompson:

Yes, thank you, for having me, Dr. Goodwin. It’s great to be with you. 

Yeah. So, as mentioned before in our past episode, I grew up in a small town in the Midwest, you know, talking about toxic masculinity, and the expectations of young men, I definitely felt that growing up, and knowing that I didn’t necessarily fit that mold or type, it caused me to turn inward, and I felt very, I became very uncomfortable in my own skin, because not only did I know that this wasn’t who I was, but I, also, didn’t feel like I could be who I actually was growing up. 

I was a more effeminate young man growing up. I was quite often called a pretty boy. Just the bullying, and teasing I dealt with, caused me to turn inward, and it caused me to shut down, and not express my feelings. So, I learned how to protect myself, and build a shell. I learned how to build a shell around me, to protect me, and to keep everyone out. But you know, feeling that sense of like being alone, loneliness, it does have consequences. 

And so, you know, growing up in a small town, in high school, drinking alcohol was definitely, socially acceptable in high school, and that was something I had done, you know, for the first time in high school. And I remember when I did that, for the first time, I felt okay. I felt okay. I felt like I could be sociable with other people. I felt like I wasn’t worried about who I was, and that no one else cared. But unfortunately, for a long time, I only felt that feeling when I was drinking.

And so, it was manageable until it wasn’t. And when I graduated and went to college, I knew very clearly that I was gay, and I was in the closet. I didn’t feel like I could come out, and that really took a mental toll on me. And so, as my substance use escalated, and caused me to isolate, and so I would skip class. I wouldn’t do my homework. It just, I came, it got really bad, and I failed out of school, because I couldn’t manage my studies. 

And shortly after, about six months after failing out of school, I was able to get help. I needed help. For the first time, I asked for help, and I was able to get that, and that really just started to change the trajectory of my life. 

00:03:42 Michele Goodman:

What does making the decision to seek recovery from addiction look like? What was that process for you? Because one can imagine that it had its own challenges, and clearly the other side are the opportunities. But what’s the fabric of that?

00:04:03 Cody Thompson:

Yeah, so a lot has changed since the first time I came into recovery to now, and what I’ve come to learn is that recovery looks different for each individual person, and recovery doesn’t always necessarily mean abstinence-based recovery. I follow an abstinence-based approach. I don’t drink or use any substances. In December, I’ll have five years of continuous sobriety, so I’m grateful for that.

00:04:31 Michele Goodman:

Congratulations. That’s that’s significant. 

00:04:35 Cody Thompson:

Thank you. But in my experience, moving from active use, or addiction, to recovery, there’s a common term that people use called hitting bottom, or hitting your lowest point. And for me, what that looked like was, I came to a place mentally, emotionally, spiritually, where I felt like I was cornered, in my mind, and I had to make a decision. I was going to either continue, kill myself, or get sober.

I just could not handle it anymore, and so I gave up. I just, I was like, I can’t do this anymore. And it was quite powerful, and definitely a spiritual experience, because when I gave up, and asked for help, it was more of a spiritual thing with like a higher power, which I’ve come to know as God. I’ve always believed in God, but it was like I had a powerful moment with God when I gave up, and since that moment, almost five years ago, I really haven’t had a strong desire to drink, or use substances. It just went away. And that’s certainly, not the experience of everyone, but it just, it just changed for me from that moment on, and it’s life has just been very different.

00:06:02 Michele Goodman:

I want to share with our listeners from the National Institutes of Health website, some information that ties with what you were just saying. 

So, there are medical solutions, but it’s known that science is broad, and here I’m quoting, science has brought us effective behavioral and medication addiction treatments, as well as lifesaving treatments, that revive people from overdose, and give them a chance to seek lasting recovery. That’s not part of your journey, was it?

You know, and then they go on to say, that there are other tools, like peer and family support, that lived experience suggests that individuals may need tools to manage their health long term, as well as, friendship and support from those with similar lived experiences. What did that look like for you? Did you rely on the tools of family, and friends, to help? What about medical solutions? Was that also a part of your journey?

00:07:04 Cody Thompson:

Yes. So I will say, when I went from actively using to recovery, I certainly had strained relations with people, because of the struggles I faced, especially with my family, but I’ve since repaired those relationships. 

But what I will say, in my experience, I have gone through treatment program for my addiction, and it was very helpful. But I will say, I think it’s common, there’s a common misunderstanding that treatment and recovery are the same thing. They’re not. 

Treatment is one part of the continuum of care, for some. Some people stop and, you know, go right into the recovery community, and find peer support. Some go to treatment, and then, maybe a step down of care, then in there. There’s many different paths across the continuum of care. 

However, in order to sustain my recovery, that long-term peer support was necessary, and continues to be, and always will be. So I found, through peer support in the community, that that is what has ultimately helped me to sustain my recovery.

00:08:17 Michele Goodman:

Do you think that, if you’re thinking about advice for young people, and you’ve said that each person’s journey along the road to recovery may be different, are there aspects of what it means to be a youth, or a younger person, in recovery that’s distinct from what it might mean for someone who might be in their 40s, or 50s, going through recovery, or for that matter, even in their 30s, and late 20s?

00:08:49 CT

Yeah, you know, it’s very interesting, because I’ve met people who are in their 50s, who didn’t start using substances until their late 40s, which is quite interesting to see that happen, how people can go through life, and then all of a sudden, later in life, they develop, you know, a substance use disorder. 

But for young people, I would say, for young people who may be actively using substances, who may be concerned about their use, that they don’t have, they can stop, and they don’t have to continue, if they don’t want to. There is plenty of resources out there. You know, I’m grateful for the trusting people in my life that I could reach out to, or confide in, when I was at the depths of my addiction, because those relationships helped me to get connected to the support I needed.

00:09:47 Michele Goodman:

So once a person has made a decision for themselves, right, and I think that there’s agreement that that is such a critically important part, what does a life in recovery require? So you are, you’ve run miles, and miles, and miles, and miles, with this in reaching five years, what does that look like? What does it take for a person to get to a space where you are? Are there particular resources, particular tools? How do you sustain it?

00:10:24 Cody Thompson:

Yeah, so there are many different resources and tools. There’s smart recovery, 12-step programs, you know, various support groups. So, there’s many different avenues to maintain, and support one’s recovery. You know, for me, it has really been community and peer support, and support groups. That is like the core of my recovery. Having those personal connections. Connection is very important, because the moment I start to lose connections with people, I begin to isolate, and that is setting myself on a path that could possibly lead to a relapse, or a return to use. 

So, yeah. I will say there’s many different resources. Be open minded, that’s the important thing. One thing, you may not like one thing, or one thing may not work for you, so try something else, but don’t give up if one thing doesn’t work. There are many resources that can be supportive of someone in the recovery.

00:11:33 Michele Goodman:

Cody, what’s your advice to people who may have struggles with family, just as you did, and those relationships have now experienced healing, but it can be challenging. You mentioned being in the closet. You’re gay. We know that within that space there can be significant trauma as a result of family rejection when kids come out. So, there’s that, and then, there is addiction, and the trauma that might be associated with that, within a family. Sometimes maybe it’s actually coming from within matters that people are experiencing in the family that leads to these things. 

But you’ve also come to the other side of that. What acknowledgement, how do you talk to those who, right now, are maybe in a space that you were in, needing family support, maybe feeling that it wasn’t there. How do you address that with them? 

00:12:34 Cody Thompson:

Yeah. I will say that, you know, everyone’s circumstances are different, and some relationships may be more strained than others. Some people may never reconcile, but I will say, in my process, you know, there may have been a few people, or there have been a few people, that I don’t necessarily speak to ,or want to have relationships anymore with, but I’ve gone through a process that has allowed me to heal, and recover from those strained relations, kind of acknowledging what it was, what happened, you know, what I may have done to harm them in my active addiction, and being able to process that, and essentially, letting it go. Not not allowing it to have control over me anymore. 

So, you know, if some may be worried about their relations with family or friends, or may not be ready, whether you ever do repair your relations with someone, or not, you still can find healing in that. 

00:13:49 Michele Goodman:

That is beautifully said. It is really beautifully said, because I imagine that some people might think about the measure of being in recovery, or being in healing, is that family relationships are restored. But that’s not always the case, and that doesn’t mean that one’s recovery, or healing, necessarily, has to have that component either. And it’s tough, and I think that there are many different ways in which one can see that. Whether it’s been on matters of recovery. Whether there has been some domestic violence in a family, or what have you.

You know there are some that say that family is relative, right. That you create the family that you that you need, and you hope that there can be broad healing within a family, where there can be mutual love and respect. But I think it’s really important that young people hear that what’s important is to be able to have honest, respectful relationships, and sometimes those are not always biological, but there are people who love you and who care for you, and and those people can be your family. 

As we move towards wrapping up, I want to take notice that you’ve been on the Hill, and you mentioned on Twitter, as a person in long-term recovery, I’m grateful to be on the Hill today, advocating for Medicaid and recovery support services. These are vital lifelines for millions of Americans, and we must fight to protect them. 

Tell us a little bit more about what then government can do, and your time on the Hill advocating for Medicaid and recovery support services. What is that? What were you doing? 

00:15:36 Cody Thompson:

Yeah. So, you know, I was a part of a National Call to Action Day on the Hill with Faces and Voices of Recovery, a national nonprofit, supporting the millions of people in recovery from a substance use disorder. And throughout the day, we had meetings with members of Congress from our respective states. I’m originally from Minnesota, so I joined with Minnesota folks from nonprofits there, to have conversations about just supporting Medicaid, and ensuring people have access to that vital resource, because it is critical, in terms of treatment access, and support, there for people. 

So it was a very great day, and I’m very hopeful about that, in terms of recovery, in terms of support. You know, addiction affects everyone, and it isn’t a blue or red issue. It’s an American issue. It’s a global issue. And it was very heartening to see that across the aisle, people do see recovery as a good thing, and willing to make investments in it, and that many people are still suffering, and need help, and so, I hope that we can continue to provide Medicaid as a resource to many, many people.

00:17:01 Michele Goodman:

On that note, the O’Neill Institute recently released a brief, Big Ideas, Innovative HIV Prevention and Care for People Who Use Drugs, PWUD, and it highlights the ways in which people who use drugs are overlooked in HIV policy efforts. This work exemplifies the importance of innovative policy solutions in addiction and recovery spaces. 

And so, my last two questions for you, before getting to our silver lining is, what can then recovery support look like at the policy level? Because you were at the Hill. So what are, you know, are a couple of ideas that will make a difference?

00:17:45 Cody Thompson:

Well, I will say that investing in community. Community organizations receiving block grant dollars from SAMHSA, the Substance Use and Mental Health Services Administration, are critical to their operation into the support of people in recovery. You know, community is a big part of recovery, and the work of these organizations are critical to the support of people. And kind of mentioning the, you know, kind of responding to the brief you mentioned, I was grateful to contribute to that. It’s a very important issue to make sure that people who use drugs are included in HIV policy efforts, because they are very much a vulnerable population at risk of infectious disease, and so, we need to make sure that we’re not leaving them behind, and including them in prevention and care efforts to raise awareness about PrEP, to expand access to treatment, to ensure people who are incarcerated, reentering society, are able to maintain their medicine regimen while there, and back into the community.

00:19:02 Michele Goodman:

Now, one last question before we get to silver lining. You’ve written that, excuse me, recovery-ready workplaces are an effective tool and policy strategy to help employees living with substance use and disorder thrive in recovery, and strengthen communities and promote economy. So, what does a workplace-ready environment look like? And what advice would you give to employers?

00:19:33 Cody Thompson:

Yeah, so you know, in my experience, and the people I’ve met, people in recovery are some of the brightest, most productive individuals in our society. Yet, addiction is a health issue, like many other issues, that some people may be living with, and may need support for. And so, I think having an open-door policy within a company or an organization, and making that known, that it’s okay that if someone needs support, that they can come to us and talk about that, and know that their work, or place of employment, will support them. I think, in the workplace, if people are, if they don’t feel like they’re supported in that respect, with their recovery, it can be isolating. It can affect work performance, and definitely, the team dynamic in the workplace. 

00:20:32 Michele Goodman:

Cody, we reached that time in our episodes where we ask our guests about a silver lining. There’s so much in the world that can cast a shadow on what is beautiful, caring, and meaningful, but there is hope, and so, I wonder what you see as a silver lining in these times.

00:20:50 Cody Thompson:

I would say, despite everything we’re experiencing, right now, around the world, I do think that there is a sense of community, with even across differences, and I think we just need to be there for each other. I think the support is there, I think, and we just need to lean into that, and support one another, and listen to one another, during these times.

00:21:19 Michele Goodman:

It has been my pleasure spending this time with you, Cody. Thank you, so much, for being back with us on our MS Studios platform, and for this very special series where we’re focusing on the long road to recovery. Thank you, so much, Cody. 

00:21:36 Cody Thompson:

Thank you.

Guests and listeners, thank you, for joining us for our special limited series podcast, The Long Way Home. We want to thank our guests, and to our listeners, we thank you, for tuning in to learn more about addiction and recovery.

For more information about what we discussed today, head to msmagazine.com This podcast series is available on Apple Podcast, Spotify, iHeartRadio, and wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. We are ad free, and reader supported, so we encourage you to support independent feminist media. 

Look for us at msmagazine.com for new content, and special episode updates, and if you want to reach us to recommend guests for our show, or topics that you want to hear about, write to us at ontheissues@msmagazine.com.

We want to thank collaborators for this project, including Professor Regina LaBelle. She is the Director of the Center on Addiction Policy at the O’Neill Institute for National and Global Health Law at Georgetown Law. She is also a professor of addiction policy at Georgetown, where she is also the Founder and Director of the Masters of Science in Addiction Policy and Practice Program.

Our producers for this episode are Roxy Szal. Oliver Haug, Allison, Whelan, Mariah Lindsay, and our intern is Emerson Panigrahi. We also thank Jennifer Weiss Wolf. The creative vision behind our work includes art and design by Brandi Phipps, editing by Natalie Hadland, music by Chris J Lee, and we are always grateful to you, our listeners.