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Transcript:

00:00:00 Michele Goodwin: 

Friends, welcome to The Magazine, where we’re unpacking what you can expect in the issue that is hitting newsstands now and also in your mailboxes. You know what we’re doing, which is giving you a sneak peak so that you can know what exactly to expect.

And in these sneak peaks, you know, I’m joined by Kathy Spillar, who’s the executive director and a founder of the Feminist Majority Foundation, a national organization working for women’s equality, empowerment, and nonviolence, and also the executive editor at Ms., where she oversees editorial content and the Ms. in the Classroom program.

Kathy joins me in this episode as we’re unpacking important matters that you’re going to be reading about in our Spring 2025 issue, and this includes the cover story, How Anti-Abortion Extremists Stopped a Beverly Hills Clinic From Opening its Doors With Help From City Officials. 

It’s a hot mess, and you’ll want to dive right in and to learn about the attacks that are taking place in states that are considered sanctuary, blue spaces of freedom, but those are spaces where there is a doubling, a tripling, a quadrupling of efforts in order to stymie equality, freedom, and reproductive freedom.

And so, the sneak peak into the magazine also includes if it can happen here, and we have a number of other materials that you want to read in the magazine, and so, let’s just dive right in, right now, with Kathy Spillar.

Ms Mag – Kathy Spillar and Michele Goodwin

00:00:01 Michele Goodwin:

So, Kathy, we are unpacking the Spring 2025 issue, and it’s great to be with you. So, the cover story, How Anti-Abortion Extremists Stopped a Beverly Hills Clinic From Opening, you know, Kathy, many people are thinking California is safe. It’s a blue state, and yet, what’s being reported on is don’t be too confident.

00:00:01 Kathy Spillar:

That’s exactly right. In fact, as you point out, it’s supposed to be a safe state. We have the right to abortion in our state constitution, and we have very strong state laws against anti-abortion extremists, harassment, and threats, and violence, and yet, this group of extremists was able to, in a very short period of time, about two months, intimidate City of Beverly Hills officials into pressuring a landlord to cancel a lease that had been signed.

Money had been spent on renovations for a new clinic, and to rescind the lease, and to block a clinic from ever even opening, and if they can be successful here, is our bottom-line message, they can take this on the road, and it can happen in other places, too, and in fact, they’re threatening to do just that.

00:01:16 Michele Goodwin:

And that’s really the important thing to understand, which is that this is not just that there are safe spaces where people can get to, and it’s important that people know, yes, get to New York, get to California, get to any number of states, Michigan and others, but the truth of it is that a fight continues to wage in the spaces that many people think have an iron door with a deadbolt lock on it. And what’s being reported in Ms., right now, and is not necessarily what we’re seeing in other magazines and news outlets, is that there are vulnerabilities.

00:01:54 Kathy Spillar:

Absolutely, and as you say, we’re one of the only ones really reporting on what the anti-abortion extremists are doing, and of course, they’re anti-democracy, they’re white nationalists, for the most part. They believe in the use of violence to oppose those things and people they don’t support, but in the case of abortion, they have been given a real lease on life, now, under the Trump Administration.

The second day he was in office, he pardoned 23 convicted anti-abortion extremists who were in prison for violently invading and attacking clinics, and then he went a step further, and his Attorney General and the Department of Justice announced that it was no longer going to prosecute most cases under the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances law.

That’s a federal law that we helped get passed to protect clinics and doctors and patients against this kind of anti-abortion threats and violence. They are not going to prosecute, and that means that states are going to have to step up, state attorneys general, local district attorneys, to prosecute these cases. 

So, we’re in a very dangerous period, where these anti-abortion extremists have been emboldened by the Trump Administration and this Department of Justice, and we are seeing it play out in state after state across this country.

00:03:16 Michele Goodwin:

And in fact, to quote from the article, will Trump’s pardons of 23 anti-abortion extremists endanger providers and patients, from back in January 2025, so, on January 23rd, in a move as brazen as was predictable, it says, President Donald Trump pardoned nearly 20…nearly 2 dozen anti-abortion extremists, convicted during the Biden Administration, of violating the Freedom of Access to Clinics’ Entrances Act, which is known as the FACE Act.

And even those who’d also been found guilty of “conspiracy against rights” got a get out of jail free card. Trump told reporters that were present at a news conference that it was a great honor to sign the pardon, and that same day, the administration’s new Justice Department announced that the three pending anti-abortion FACE Act cases were being dismissed.

00:04:19 Kathy Spillar:

Yes.

00:04:19 Michele Goodwin:

Effective immediately, and per a department memo, no new abortion-related Face Act prosecutions could be initiated without special authorization. Also, until further notice, the Attorney General would consider filing Face Act charges only if an anti-abortion crime involved “significant aggravated factors,” such as a death, serious bodily harm, or serious property damage. Kathy, break that down. What do we get out of that? What does it mean?

00:04:57 Kathy Spillar:

What it means is Department of Justice has largely dismantled what had been an extraordinary effort under the Biden Administration to crack down on anti-abortion extremist violence, at clinics and against doctors and the staff of these clinics all across the country. You know, we not only have now witnessed the overturning of Roe v. Wade and the enactment, in many states, of these horrific abortion bans, which have closed the clinics in those states.

But in the states where clinics remain, where abortion remains legal, and California is one of those states, we are seeing stepped-up activity by these extremists. So, what they weren’t able to do with the Supreme Court decision, they’re attempting to do with extremists who are willing to make threats against providers, to commit violence, and in this case that we report on, to pressure city officials, including police officials and elected city councilmembers, to pressure a landlord to block a clinic from opening its doors here.

And this was a very important clinic because it was a clinic that was to provide all-term abortion procedures. So, for women in severe crisis, later in their pregnancies, this would be the place they could come to if they lived in Texas, or Louisiana, or Mississippi, where we’ve seen some horrific examples of women losing their lives because they didn’t have the kind of medical care that this clinic was going to be able to provide.

And it was being opened in Los Angeles, in Beverly Hills, in California, because of the laws here being so strong, and you could get to it by flying into the airport out here. So, this is a real loss, nationwide, for women who need this kind of medical care. This is one less place they’re going to be able to find it.

00:06:56 Michele Goodwin:

So, it sounds like what you’re also saying, Kathy, too, is that folks need to stay alert, stay on their toes, right? It’s not enough to be in a safe blue state.

00:07:06 Kathy Spillar:

Right.

00:07:09 Michele Goodwin:

Because there are actions like this where they’re still…in fact, it may be a doubling and tripling down in those states to make sure that clinics that are about to open never see daylight.

00:07:23 Kathy Spillar:

Right.

00:07:23 Michele Goodwin:

And that the clinics that already exist, making it as difficult as possible for people to be able to get in and get the healthcare that they need on the other side of those doors.

00:07:33 Kathy Spillar:

Exactly.

00:07:33 Michele Goodwin:

And it also means that with the FACE Act, what it protected people against, it seems that from this, you could show up with guns, with violence, and whatnot. I mean, basically it suggests that so long as you don’t kill the person who’s the escort, so long as you don’t cause serious bodily harm to the patient, the pregnant person…I mean, the fact that it says serious bodily harm. So, what, if you slap her around a little bit, you kick her a little bit, you break an arm, you break a leg, is that what this Attorney General of the United States…right, you know?

00:08:11 Kathy Spillar:

Yeah.

00:08:13 Michele Goodwin:

I mean, if we actually look at serious property damage…

00:08:14 Kathy Spillar: 

That’s what it says.

00:08:17 Michele Goodwin:
What does that mean? It’s okay to start the fire, so long as the clinic doesn’t burn down completely? And Kathy, it’s really important that we level set on this because what hasn’t been captured otherwise in the news but has been a feature before on our podcast and the magazine is that in the last 50 years, there have been nearly 50 bombings of abortion clinics. We have covered the fact that there are doctors who’ve been gunned down at their homes, in their churches, and other places, where there have been these levels of harm, this kind of violence.

00:08:50 Kathy Spillar: 

Right.

00:08:50 Michele Goodwin:
A kind of domestic terrorism that simply has been swept under the rug, and by what the Attorney General has issued, right, like unless death is caused, unless what is considered, by the Trump Administration, serious bodily harm or serious property damage, they’re not interfering.

00:09:08 Kathy Spillar:

No, that’s exactly right, and it’s not…these kinds of incidents are not isolated to any one part of the country. These similar incidents have occurred in Illinois, in New York. The Attorney General there in New York has been very aggressive about cracking down on anti-abortion extremist violence and threats, but Maryland, Virginia, literally every state, and this is an orchestrated campaign of domestic terror, just like you said. These are domestic terrorists, and they now have a new get out of jail card.

00:09:41 Michele Goodwin:

Get out of jail free card.

00:09:43 Kathy Spillar:
And a permission, and a permission card.

00:09:44 Michele Goodwin:

And a permission.

00:09:44 Kathy Spillar:

From this administration to use threats and intimidation to close clinics.

00:09:48 Michele Goodwin:

Well, so, Kathy, just a couple more questions, but on that point that it is domestic terrorism, and the connection, as we both know, and through our good friend Lizz Winstead and her organization of AAFF, right, Abortion Access Front, that many other people who showed up on January 6.

00:10:10 Kathy Spillar:

Oh, yeah.

00:10:13 Michele Goodwin:
To engage in what otherwise was like a coupe d’état to try to disrupt the transition of government after a fair election were people who protest and engage in violence at clinics that provide reproductive healthcare.

00:10:28 Kathy Spillar:

Right. That’s right.

00:10:29 Michele Goodwin:

So, that through-line is important for folks to know. So, let me ask you this, Kathy. In terms of what states can do, if the Trump Administration is saying we won’t protect patients, we’re not going to enforce federal laws that otherwise would provide for patient safety, doctor safety, etcetera, do you think that at the states level, it’s something that state AGs or state legislatures could, in fact, enact their own versions of FACE laws?

00:10:58 Kathy Spillar:

Yeah. Absolutely, and that’s what’s going to be needed. State attorneys general can prosecute under the federal FACE Act, but only for civil, in civil cases. They cannot prosecute criminally under the federal FACE law. Only the Department of Justice can do that. So, if a state doesn’t have a state version of its own FACE, and California does, for example, as does New York, then other laws are going to have to be deployed, or new state FACE laws need to get passed.

But we are now in a period, a protracted period, where we cannot any longer rely on the Department of Justice to step in and stop this kind of orchestrated campaign of threats and terror and violence against abortion providers. So, we do have to turn to state officials, state attorneys general, in particular, to prosecute these cases, and so, there is an effort.

There is an organization called the Freedom Alliance, which is of state governors, blue state governors, that are looking into all of this. We need to encourage these state attorneys general and state governors to take decisive action because without the Department of Justice to check this activity, this is going to continue. They’ve had big successes, now, at Beverly Hills, California.

They can claim credit for that to be able to stop a clinic before it even opens. So, we’ve got to stay vigilant, as you were saying, and we’ve got to make sure people know that this is going on, which is why Ms. has put it on the cover. It’s why it’s a major investigative story in this issue of the magazine. We are the only ones who are covering this on a regular basis, what anti-abortion extremists are doing. It is not old news. It is happening now, and people need to be aware.

00:12:54 Michele Goodwin:

So, I want to turn to a couple of other pieces that are in this issue, Fighting for Democracy in the Check-Out Aisle. We’re turning to some positive stuff, because Ms., it’s always important to look ahead, spring forward, what’s our message of hope, and so, what can our readers learn about fighting for democracy in the check-out aisle?

00:13:15 Kathy Spillar:
Yeah. We have a great piece that actually suggests companies that you can now start buying from, including online companies, that are not backing down from their commitments to diversity and equity and inclusion, that are not complying with Trump’s orders before they need to, and so, there’s ways that you can support by buying particular products and buying through online sources that will show that the consumer has power, real power.

The women of this country hold enormous economic power, and we’re already seeing it. For example, Costco has been doing quite well in this period, whereas Target and Walmart are having terrible trouble, and it’s because people have paid attention, and they’re putting their dollars where their beliefs are and withholding their dollars from those companies that have cozied up to Trump and are taking on the regressive agenda of this Trump Administration.

So, we want people to know that. That’s a key piece, and another positive piece is how state equal rights amendments, you know, until we can get congress that will vote to recognize the 28th Amendment and the fact that the Equal Rights Amendment has been ratified and is valid, we need to rely on state equal rights amendments and get more of them passed.

And so, we look at state equal rights amendments in New Mexico and Nevada and New York that have very strong equal rights amendments and how they can be used to not only fight back against the Trump Administration and what’s happening with the backlash to women’s equality but actually could be used to do very positive things, like guarantee paid family medical leave, affordable, widespread public childcare availability, sick leave, higher wages, all of those kinds of things that could be done under state equal rights amendments, and including, by the way, protecting reproductive rights and access. So, we’re hoping that people will see our report, contact activists, their state officials in their states, if they have a strong ERA, and demand action, especially in this period.

00:15:40 Michele Goodwin:

All right, Kathy, and just one more, because it’s a loaded issue, and it’s fabulous, a weekly pill, Kathy, tell our listeners what they can expect when they pick up the magazine and read about a weekly pill.

00:15:56 Kathy Spillar:

This is very exciting. Rebecca Gomperts, who sort of conceptualized the whole idea that you could mail abortion pills…she’s based in Europe, and she has continued to investigate how the abortion pill, which is mifepristone, could be used in a lower dose as a weekly contraceptive, and it really is the ultimate objective here, and it’s been a dream of the scientists who were behind the development of the abortion pill, behind the development of mifepristone, is that ultimately it could be used as a weekly contraceptive.

And so, she is actually undertaking clinical trials in Europe. They’re quite large. Ultimately, this will get approved in Europe, we’re sure, and our hope, of course, is that we’ll be able to get it approved here, someday, through the FDA, but in the meantime, we want to remind people that abortion pills are available by mail here in the United States, whether you’re in a blue state or a red state.

But this is a very significant development because what it would do, of course, is free women even more not to have to wait until they’re pregnant to look for abortion pills but to be able to use this lower dose of mifepristone as a weekly contraception.

00:17:20 Michele Goodwin:
Kathy, I’m thrilled about this issue that’s coming out. Thank you, so much, for giving us the rundown, the low down, about what our readers can expect when they go to pick it up in stores or when they receive it in their mailboxes. Thank you, Kathy.

00:17:39 Kathy Spillar:

Thank you, Michele.