Background reading:

• “With U.S. Democracy Under Attack, Women Election Officials Hold the Front Lines” — Katie Usalis
• “Project 2025 Would Fuel the Assault on Election Officials” — Eric Petry and Daniel I. Weiner

Transcript:

0:00:01 Michele Goodwin:

Welcome to On the Issues with Michele Goodwin at Ms. Magazine. As you know, we’re a show that reports, repels, and we tell it just like it is. On this show, we center your concerns about rebuilding our nation and advancing the promise of equality. So, join me as we tackle the most compelling issues of our times.

On our show, history matters. We examine the past as we think about the future, and in this episode, we are continuing our countdown to the election, and we’re delving right in, focusing on the lives of election officials who are coming together to save democracy, and the vast majority of them happen to be women.

Election administration continues to be one of the most compelling, challenging, and sadly, even dangerous jobs in the US Government. A recent survey by the Brennan Center revealed that over 1/3rd of election officials have experienced threats, harassment, or abuse just for doing their jobs.

And in the face of these fundamental challenges to our democracy and an environment that has increasingly been characterized by political polarization, how can we protect our elections and support our election officials? Today, I’m joined by three women who’ve answered the call to help protect our democracy.

I’m joined by Natalie Adona, county clerk, recorder-elect, and the former assistant clerk-recorder and registrar of voters for Nevada County, California. Tonya Wichman is back with us again. She’s the Director of the Defiance County Board of Elections, in Defiance, Ohio, and a certified elections and registration administrator, and as well, I’m joined by Gabriella Cázares-Kelly. She is the Pima County recorder in Arizona, who made history in 2020 as the first Native American to be elected to a countywide seat in Pima County. Sit back and take a listen.

0:00:04 Michele Goodwin:

It’s such a pleasure to be with you all, and we’re so very grateful. Natalie and Tonya, you’ve joined us before us before, the 2022 election, to talk about your experiences, including, Natalie, your experience being assaulted while doing your job. As we approach the very high-profile, contentious presidential election, what has changed? And I’m wondering what you think remains the same? And so, Natalie, let me begin with you, and then I’m curious, Tonya, about what you’ve seen in the two years since we were last together.

0:00:47 Natalie Adona:

Sure. Thanks, so much. Happy to be joining you again, and just, you know, one modification on sort of what happened in our office in 2022. Actually, it was not me who was assaulted. It was a staff member of mine, and yeah, just wanted to make that clarification.

0:01:08 Michele Goodwin:

That’s right. That’s right.

0:01:10 Natalie Adona:

But yeah, I mean, most of what I have experienced has been, you know, sort of verbal attacks and a lot of mis and disinformation around my role here. So, you know, I think the main thing that has changed since I last talked to you what it was not an election year for me. I won’t be on the ballot again until 2026, although, you know, there are a small but vocal group of people who continue to sort of misstate what my job is.

I actually heard about another one from this morning, and you know, the focus on me, I continue to find strange, but you know, what is different, this time around, than the first time that we talked, is, you know, I and my staff are much more prepared for what’s going to be coming ahead than we were in 2020 and in 2022.

We have a much greater sense of what to expect, and we have done a lot of preparations to make sure that all of our staff stays safe, that the election process not only runs smoothly, but it is also protected, and you know, the great news is that our local law enforcement has become a lot more engaged with your office since 2020, certainly, and even 2022.

So, you know, I feel like we are all working together very well. Of course, the unexpected will probably happen. It is hard to anticipate what you don’t know is coming, but all in all, I think that we are so much more prepared for those contingencies than we ever have been.

Plus, you know, we are very ready to have this election get underway. We received two ballots that have been voted by our military and overseas voters. We just sent those out last week. So, it has officially begun.

0:03:16 Michele Goodwin:

Well, in fact, in thinking back about our interview from two years ago, you said, and I’m quoting from that transcript, that all of this with, you know, the doubts about the 2020 election and the country’s COVID-19 policies, which you had enforced…you said which I enforced in my office, and you know, it sort of led to this incident where someone on my staff was assaulted, so, I became a target.

And that’s what you just spoke to, right, becoming a target after standing up for someone in your office, which also makes me think, when you’ve been verbally attacked…I know you said, well, I wasn’t assaulted, I was just verbally attacked, it made me also think about what women accept and how women frame being attacked. Like, oh, it really wasn’t attack, I was just verbally, you know, assaulted, but like verbally attacked, which, I don’t know, also sounds pretty offensive and awful, I would think.

0:04:11 Natalie Adona:

Well, yeah. And I have a tendency to agree with you, because, I mean, I, as a woman, know that there are many ways to inflict violence on a person, and I consider, you know, sort of verbal abuse to be within the scope of that, but you know, I also did want to make clear because most people think about an attack as something physical, that, you know, just for clarification, that that wasn’t me, personally, but you know, it was a staff member, and I absolutely have a duty to create a safe work environment along with all of the other things that we do.

0:04:49 Michele Goodwin:
Tonya, you were also in that episode, a couple years ago, and so, I’m wondering, for you, what has changed and what has stayed the same? Are you worried about this coming election?

0:05:02 Tonya Wichman:

I think I’m worried about every election. Being a perfectionist, you know, we’re under a microscope for the public, and it has to be perfect, or everything’s wrong, no matter if it’s something minor. 2022, I think I hit a breaking point between the public records requests that had to be attached to every nasty quote of us being treacherous, treasonous people who belonged in jail, and you know, they’re going to make sure we don’t have our jobs, that kind of thing.

But you still had to read through it to make sure you got that public record request filled at the same time. I had a gentleman at one of our polling locations that kind of pushed me over the edge on Election Day. He was going at my co-workers as I walked in the door. It was a normal one for us that felt the need to get on a soapbox every time he walked into the polling location.

So, when he got done, I had told him he was going to leave, and he got a little bit louder and said, you know, you’re the reason nobody wants to vote here. The place is full, but so, you know, I took out my phone. I was going to have the sheriff come. Well, this kind of got into a prolonged situation where he would be at my nephew’s basketball games and stand in front of the stadium and stare at me or make sure he was walking out when I walked out.

So, I think it was just a mental game, like nothing to the point of I’m going to do something, but I want you to know I’m here. You know, that same day, at the polling location, my parents happened to be working there. We had two high school kids that were working for the first time, sitting in the corner, crying, thinking he was going to come back and do something.

So, those types of things are just unacceptable. 95 percent of our voters, I think we’ve spent the last two years educating everyone on how things are done and reminding them these people are your friends and neighbors that are working here. They’re here to make sure you get to vote.

And I think, around here, it’s gotten better. I know the whole country, maybe overall, has not gotten better, but I think we’ve learned, anybody that’s been in the profession long enough, has learned you just have to get ahead of it and make sure people know how we do things and answer any questions we can to make them feel more comfortable.

0:07:21 Michele Goodwin:

Gabriella, I want to turn to you, now. You made history in 2020 as the first Native American to be elected to a countywide seat in Pima County, which seems extraordinary to me. It just really seems extraordinary, and I think it says so much about where our country, you know, is.

But you are a first, and you’ve written about what your experiences have been, including about matters of underrepresentation. So, I’m wondering what has your experience been like as an election official in this particularly fraught time, and are you worried?

0:08:03 Gabriella Cázares-Kelly:

Well, that’s a hard question. Well, my experience, largely, has been really positive. It has been such an honor to represent my community. It has been very productive. We’ve been able to do some really cool things that are literally leading to making it easier to vote for voters and for people to be more informed and more engaged within our community.

And so, that’s something that I’ve been able to see the results of already. I, famously, like to tell people, I am in the blueberry that is the bowl of tomato soup that is Arizona, and so, we’re in a very Democratic blue space, and you know, I am very, very much…my community is very excited to see me out, about in the community.

I get a lot of positive interactions and things like that. However, we are still being impacted by the questions about election integrity and safety and security of our elections, and that’s even in places where people feel safe. They’re concerned. So, what I like to tell people that is nothing stays within one county.

What happens in one county or in one state impacts what happens here in Pima County, and so, we’ve seen, you know, angry phone calls are just like a norm, now, where people come in hot on the phones, and our staff needs…the racism that is coming through on the phones is unreal.

We have actually had to write up protocols for what to do for how to answer people, or you know, at what point? Just last week, we had an article come out because somebody had applied to work here and come for an interview, and they were here…it was very much clear that they were here to write an article and not really to apply for a job.

But then they turned that into this conspiracy theory, and you know, part of what I had to do, even today, was, you know, check in with my staff and make sure that their wellbeing is okay, and you know, on one hand, I’m seeing the really good and positive things that are coming.

Especially for me, being one of the first Native Americans in a countywide space, to just be able to raise my hand and talk about things that other people have a hard time understanding, like tribal IDs or non-standard addresses, and being able to communicate that in a way that helps people understand. Like, that’s been really positive.

0:11:02 Michele Goodwin:

How do you deal with that? So, because you raised that, I’d love for us to turn to that, even though I’ve got another question.

0:11:08 Gabriella Cázares-Kelly:
Yeah.

0:11:10 Michele Goodwin:

But how do you deal with that, especially with this kind of mythology that’s been floating around that there’s been so much fraud in American elections, that the voter ID laws were so necessary because there were all these people that were voting in elections that shouldn’t have been and that these new efforts are not to suppress voting but actually to legitimize voting and make it better.

0:11:43 Gabriella Cázares-Kelly:

I openly call out the white supremacy that it’s based out on. So, I am unapologetic about talking about the white supremacist, xenophobic motivations for putting those things in place, and I question them openly, but I always do communicate what the law is, and you know, that this is how we work with this, with what we have at hand.

And there’s only so much that I will give attention to many of these things. One of the things that I’m recognizing and I’m telling other people is these conspiracy theorists and election deniers, there’s nothing that we’re going to be able to provide them that’s going to satiate them.

Like, they’re never going to be satisfied with our answers, and these are people who are literally on the same…within the same community that doesn’t believe in science. Like, there’s a rejection of facts, and so, you know, when I’m choosing whether to respond or how to respond to certain things, unless I have a legal requirement to or a responsibility for public records or that sort of thing, I am going through the logic and asking is this worthy of taxpayer dollars’ time?

Is this something that needs…do we need to create a document because we have so many people asking the same question, and it adds value to the experience, and you know, transparency of what we’re doing? Or do we need to just simply focus on what is actually bringing value?

0:13:24 Michele Goodwin:
So, listeners, this episode is part of our ongoing series, leading up to the 2024 presidential elections, and joining me in this episode, once more, are two guests that were on with me a couple years ago, both Tonya Wichman and also Natalie Adona, and Tonya, you’re the Director of the Defiance, I love that, Defiance County Board of Elections, and in Defiance, Ohio. I mean, that just sounds kind of like bold, right, and it is.

And you have, you know, certified elections, and you’re a registration administrator, and I’m wondering, given that Ohio figures so centrally in American national elections, in the presidential election, have things been teed up in such a way, there, where you’re worried about your safety and the safety of those who work with you?

0:14:30 Tonya Wichman:

My daughter will tell you I have a really bad habit of not worrying about myself, but I worry about everybody else. I think the worst thing that could happen in an election is for someone to do something to somebody that worked for me, to make it hard on my poll workers at the poll stations that really don’t get paid enough to be there.

They’re there out of a courtesy to make sure democracy goes on and give people their chance to vote, but I think even the slight comments of, what, you’re going to shred this when I leave, or were you going to stuff the ballot box, it doesn’t matter if I vote, anyway, those kind of things are disheartening for somebody that’s been there since 5:30 in the morning, and you know, is going to be there all day, until the end of the night, and make sure everything’s done right at the end of the day.

I think people need to realize that nobody is out to get anybody that’s working these elections. They aren’t paid enough to go in there to do something wrong. They are really there as a courtesy, and instead of making the backhanded comments, just say thank you, vote your vote, make your voice heard, and move on.

0:15:39 Michele Goodwin:

What’s interesting is that the majority of those that protect and work our elections actually happen to be women, and that’s very interesting to think about women as having been shut out of democracy, and yet, the vast majority of those who’ve been handling our elections have been women, keeping them honorable, safe, and open for Americans to be able to vote.

That said, I’ll just read off some points that have come through Brennan Center, New York Times, Gender gap polling, local election officials have taken important steps since 2020 to improve election security, given threats that took place in 2020, including 92 percent have had to take critical steps to increase election security for voters, election workers, and election infrastructure since 2020.

And this has included cybersecurity protections and enhancing the physical security of election offices and polling places, and then we learn that there have been reports of threats, harassment, and abuse, and that this remains high, and that the safety concerns have reached the 2022 levels.

Here are a couple stats, 38 percent of local election officials report experiencing threats, harassment, or abuse. Safety concerns have reached or exceeded levels from the last federal election year. 54 percent are concerned about the safety of their colleagues and staff, and 28 percent are concerned about their family or loved ones being threatened or harassed.

I’m wondering if any of you want to weigh in on that because this is what the data is informing us, and Gabriella, you’re nodding, so maybe I’ll start with you and then turn it over to Natalie.

0:17:40 Gabriella Cázares-Kelly:

Yeah. I think it’s become very commonplace, and there are 15 counties in Arizona, with 15 county recorders and 15 elections directors, and half of our colleagues, throughout the state, have retired or resigned, some of them stating harassment, especially in our really red counties, as it’s usually their parties that are the ones who are really making it inhospitable for them.

And so, we’ve seen a terrible amount of turnover. I’ve been in office since 2021, and I’m now one of the more senior recorders in the state, which, for us, as recorders, you know, that is a tremendous loss in institutional knowledge. There are things that come up only at, you know, every presidential year that, you know, we don’t…we need to know about.

And if we’re having that much turnover, you know, it impacts the whole state. It’s a very big problem, and you know, again, we’re seeing it mostly on the phones here in Pima County. We’re not seeing it physically, but you know, I have a colleague in Yavapai who, as a standard, you know, they’re expecting paramilitary observers, and in Arizona, as a whole, they’re trying to…

0:19:01 Michele Goodwin:

Paramilitary?

0:19:04 Gabriella Cázares-Kelly:
Yes. Yes, which was a new word. I had to…we’re having to learn.

0:19:06 Michele Goodwin:

I know, because I’m thinking, like, this is helicopters and people descending down on ropes? Is this the idea?

0:19:13 Gabriella Cázares-Kelly:

Well, paramilitary is…the term is coined as military-like, and you’ll see that with like the Proud Boys, you know? They’re all wearing their cargo shorts, or their cargo pants, and their, you know, whatever, and they have these belts and these…all that kind of stuff, Kevlar.

0:19:30 Michele Goodwin:

You know, Gabriella, there’s so many of these like white nationalist groups, like, there are the ones with the tiki torches and khaki pants, and then there are the ones that have the camouflage. I mean, it’s confusing, now, I have to say. You sort of have to keep them straight. Yes.

0:19:44 Gabriella Cázares-Kelly:

Yeah.

0:19:44 Michele Goodwin:

But anyway, the paramilitary are…

0:19:47 Gabriella Cázares-Kelly:

Yeah. So, that’s the term that we use for those folks who are, you know, sitting outside of ballot drop boxes. In Pima County, we don’t even have ballot drop boxes yet, but we started to get all of these phone calls about them and these, you know, angry letters from the legislators.

0:20:05 Michele Goodwin:

So, you don’t even have them, but you’re getting angry calls about them?

0:20:10 Gabriella Cázares-Kelly:

Yeah, and we’re seeing that, and then, also, you know, this is hand-in-hand because of our legislature, you know, it also is coming from that same group of people who are hearing these, you know, questions. We’re getting official letters from some of our legislators to answer for things like the 75-foot-limit. So, that’s actually one that has gone to court, and…

0:20:35 Michele Goodwin:

What is that?

0:20:36 Gabriella Cázares-Kelly:

The 75-foot-limit is the space around a voting location that there cannot be any electioneering, you can’t enter that space if you don’t have business to be in there, and you know, that is something that’s been put in place by things like the Voting Rights Act, you know, to have specific barriers around…not barriers, but a space free from intimidation.

And every state’s a little bit different. In my state, it’s 75 feet, and so, they’re questioning whether or not that that violates free speech zones, and you know, we’ve gotten guidance from the Secretary of State to, you know, enforce it as an office policy, but the problem with that is if we do have to call law enforcement, we don’t have a law to show that, you know, they’re violating.

And so, really, we don’t have any recourse, and so, part of the attack on the legislature and the polices around safety are being questioned and dismantled, and that’s really concerning for the long-term because, you know, if we don’t have…something like a 75-foot-limit, that was put in place because the KKK used to stand outside of polling locations and intimidate people from entering. I mean, that has a really historical…

0:22:06 Michele Goodwin:

Sure, and some would say what’s old is new again, and so, Natalie and Tonya, I want to turn to you, quickly, about 62 percent of election, local election officials, are worried about political leaders engaging in efforts to interfere with the elections. 

We just heard from Gabriella about the people who are angrily calling, claiming, you know, making false claims about ballot boxes and whatnot that don’t even exist in her county, but other data shows that there’s worry about the politicians, themselves, somehow interfering in ways that would undermine the election. Are you worried about that, Natalie, and if so, how are you going to address that? You, too, Tonya.

0:22:59 Natalie Adona:

Here in California, not so much. You know, I think some of what Gabriella was saying, you know, it really reflects some of the sort of intensity of, you know, sort of these issues that we’re talking about because, you know, Arizona is a swing state. California is not, not to say that we don’t, you know, sort of experience some of the same issues that our peers in other states are experiencing.

It’s just, you know, it’s not as amplified here in California, but I mean, we do have some serious issues going on. So, you know, we’ve had significant turnover, here in this state, too, of the chief elections official. Some of that was just sort of natural retirement age.

People were sort of ready to retire, anyway, but you know, we had a good chunk of registrars of voters who said, hey, you know, this is way too much, I did not sign up for this, I’m worried about my family, I’m worried about, you know, my own personal safety, you know, I’m out, and they retired probably a little bit earlier than they would’ve, you know?

The election rules have also become far more complex than they were 20 years ago, and so, the demands on the sort of level of knowledge and skills that the election officials have to have has changed, maybe, since they first started. So, I did sort of want to put that out there.

But you know, we do have a number of concerns that we’re sort of addressing here, both at the local level and at the state level, through various things, like tabletop exercises, and you know, sort of other ways to prepare. You know, for example, back…I believe it was in 2020, we’d had a series of unofficial drop boxes that were being established by one of the political parties in certain counties, that it was mostly big counties.

But the Secretary of State, at the time, Alex Padilla, had basically told them you cannot do this, this is not legal, please un-establish your unofficial drop boxes, you know? We’d also, in LA County, saw that somebody put a flaming newspaper in a drop box, and of course, that is illegal.

There were ballots in there, and you know, a number of sort of concerning things that either have happened in past elections or that we’re anticipating, you know, so, for example, I am prepared, in my office, to address any sort of election interference that might be generated through artificial intelligence.

We’re also prepared to handle any situation for suspicious mail to come through our office, and in fact, our Secretary of State’s office, late last week, on Friday, issued a press release that, you know, Secretary of State was a recipient of a package that ended up just having unbleached flour in it, but you know, still, that is a crime.

It is, you know, an effort, I think, to intimidate government employees and government officials, and so, while we don’t really have the sort of same issues that maybe a swing state, like Arizona, may have, the effect on the person, I think, is fairly similar. It is not only disheartening, as Tonya had mentioned, but you know, it is concerning to people when they hear that, you know, an office so close…I mean we’re so close to Sacramento.

0:26:43 Michele Goodwin:
Wow. Sure.

0:26:44 Natalie Adona:
It could’ve happened to us.

0:26:45 Michele Goodwin:

Sure. Sure. Well, in fact, so, I’m wondering, Tonya, what this means on the ground for you, and Natalie mentioned artificial intelligence. That, I’m wondering if that’s a concern that’s been raised in and around your area that using AI, including for things like drafting social media content, and translating voter materials into different languages, and approaching vendors who sell products that use AI, you know, if all of that are issues that have made their way to Ohio? Like, California, you’d imagine, yeah, Silicon Valley and all of that, but are these concerns in Ohio?

0:27:26 Tonya Wichman:

I think we all have to be concerned about that. I mean, there is a broad reach for organizations that’s trying to influence voters. Other countries are trying to influence voters, and you know, we’re a small county, here. We have two full-time employees. So, we’re doing everything with our clerks.

And yeah, you do have to watch that. I mean, anymore, watching your social media is a full-time job to make sure they’re not giving the wrong information. We had an election, a couple years ago, that a text message went out to a bunch of people in the state and said you could go to your board of elections and vote on Election Day, but we don’t have voting at our board on Election Day.

You have to go to the polling locations. So, there was 100 or more people coming into the office that we weren’t prepared for because we were focused on the polling locations. That type of information is an easy way to overwhelm an office, especially on Election Day.

Most of what we have is already out in the field. So, we will be staffed extra, this time, in the office. I went to a tabletop exercise, and they started it with what keeps you up at night? And we said on which topic? I mean, there’s more than one. You have to prepare for AI. You have to prepare for security. You have to prepare for your machines not to work. You have to prepare for the ballots not to scan right, you know? There’s a lot of testing that goes into that.

0:28:49 Tonya Wichman:

So, Tonya, where’s the money for that? And this is a question for, you know, any of you who want to weigh in, but I want to start with you, you know, Tonya, given all of these worries, and you’re all laughing, right, and then Gabriella’s looking seriously into the camera, for those of you who are listening. She’s like a serious…

0:29:03 Gabriella Cázares-Kelly:

I have the same question. Where is the money?

0:29:05 Michele Goodwin:

Yeah, right? So, how, with all of those concerns, where are the resources? Do you need resources in order to address these concerns?

0:29:17 Tonya Wichman:

Yeah. Later this week, we’re meeting with our local police departments from across the county, and we’re meeting with our sheriff’s department, our EMA, going over what we can have, help-wise, from everybody at that point. Our commissioners have been really decent about our needs and what we have here.

There has been a lot of legislative requirements sent out to us in Ohio. The legislators have made a lot of changes in elections that we weren’t really prepared to change in a presidential year. So, there is some funding coming along with that. Ohio has the Data Act.

That’s changed a lot of how we submit reports, every day. Our voter registration vendor had to make a lot of updates and changes, you know, going back to the drop boxes. We put in drop boxes in 2020. We’ve spent a ton of money on putting 24-hour surveillance.

We’re allowed one, in our county, in Ohio. So, ours is outside our office, 24 hour surveillance. During early voting, when the ballots are mailed out, it’s uploaded to our website to watch, every 15 minutes, people bring something to the ballot box. It’s, you know, we had one county say, can we get a second camera to watch paint dry over here?

But you know, those types of things, you have to come up with the money in your budget, and it’s not always the easiest thing to do, but I’m really blessed with a staff that’s willing to put in a lot of extra work they didn’t do in the past, and as an election official, I think I can speak for all of us, it always gets done. Sometimes, you don’t know how, but we make sure it gets done.

0:30:55 Michele Goodwin:
Wow. I’m wondering if the financial concerns have hit you, Gabriella.

0:31:01 Gabriella Cázares-Kelly:

Yeah. This is a constant thing that we’re talking about, here, of how are we going to fund it? My county is a lot bigger. I have over a million people in my county, 630 thousand registered voters. We have a full-time staff of around 52. Towards an election, we balloon up to, you know, I think we’re going to have 160 for this next election.

And this is all during the early voting period, and then Election Day is completely facilitated by a different department, but it’s been frustrating. The legislature has banned us from receiving grants. They…

0:31:45 Michele Goodwin:

What are you talking about? Wait. Wait. What does this mean? That just seems so strange. Okay. Come on, Gabriella, how does that happen?

0:31:53 Gabriella Cázares-Kelly:

In 2020, so, not under my administration, the previous administration, there had been a Civic and Tech Life grant that the conspiracy theorists said that, you know, this is liberal money coming in. So, they banned them. We can’t take that. We can apply for federal grants, and things like that.

But they’ve also…like, even just like the HAVA Grant dollars have been sitting there in our legislature. They will not release some of that money to us, and you know, important things that we need to do regarding, you know, voter list maintenance, you know?

We need new scanners to be able to increase the speed at which we’re doing these things. People were clamoring for, you know, cleaning up the voter rolls and literally will not give us the money to do that.

0:32:49 Michele Goodwin:

That’s pretty amazing.

0:32:50 Gabriella Cázares-Kelly:

And then they’re instituting additional requirements. Even within this whole election cycle, we were having…

0:32:58 Michele Goodwin:

But this is…I mean, I would imagine, then, this is like, you know, being handcuffed. On one hand, you have politicians that are, perhaps conveniently, complaining, suggesting that systems are shady and that there are things to be concerned about, and then, as you’re saying, well, the resources to address, you know, democracy, making sure that people can vote, that it’s clear, expedient, that there’s like money that’s not coming in.

And where there opportunities for resources, it’s not being invested, that you can’t move forward, and Natalie, you are nodding, all along, while Gabriella was mentioning this. I mean, do you see financial concerns where you are?

0:33:44 Natalie Adona:

Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, there’s a lot of dynamics going on when you talk about election funding, and you know, Gabriella definitely touched on quite a few of them, as, I mean, there could be state and federal grants that are available, but sometimes there are processes that are included that make the money really hard to distribute to the county level, or you know, to the township level, if you’re in one of those states.

So, you know, you do have some monies that were first distributed when the Help America Vote Act was, you know, sort of first came into law, in 2002. The money, I think, was first distributed in ’04, and some of that money is still sitting in there, even, you know, in California.

So, you know, there’s a lot of bottlenecking that goes on with some of that. You know, you also have these other dynamics, where the Center for Tech and Civic Life did get money from the Zuckerberg Foundation, and you know, their order was to redistribute it to counties that, you know, needed it.

And a lot of this money went to things like, you know, having a pop-up vote center, or you know, sort of having other materials to actually help voters, but the theory from the sort of more skeptical folks was, well, you know, they’re just using this money to help Democrats get elected.

You know, entirely untrue, but you’ve seen, in a number of states, that, you know, it’s a problem. You know, in my own state, we’ve had a bill that may be signed into law, we’re not quite sure yet, that would dramatically change the responsibilities that we have to provide services to voters who speak languages other than English.

And you know, my state association has opposed it, not because we are objected to helping voters. We are glad to help voters, but it would astronomically increase the money that it would take to administer an election, and the state is not giving it to us. 

Like, my elections budget would almost have to double because I would have to hire somebody who actually can meaningfully engage in a community that spoke languages other than English. That means I have to get another desk. I may have to redesign my office because there’s literally no place else for this person to sit. They need benefits. They need a salary. And you know, I mean, all of this stuff costs money.

0:36:15 Michele Goodwin:

Sounds like a real catch 22. I could be on with you all for a very long time, and I think that there is so much more to this discussion, and yet, here we are, at the time in which I’m supposed to wrap up this interview.

But it is fascinating, thinking about the core of our democracy, the fact that women hold it together and have for decades in administering fair and safe and equitable elections, doing so without a federal holiday to protect voting rights, doing so and making sure that the polls are kept open for people who work jobs and can’t vote in the 9-5 period and have to rush it either before going to work or after work is over, and making sure that they get their opportunity, and then doing all of this while not having the budget to get certain things done. The pressure to expand opportunity and translate languages, and that all being very good, but as it turns out, without the budget being assigned to do that. I mean, that is so much.

0:37:25 Natalie Adona:

Hey, like I tell people, we are the MacGyvers of local government.

0:37:27 Michele Goodwin:

It’s amazing. I’m wondering about the therapy that’s needed after, after elections, given all of that that you have to manage, whether it’s in a smaller county or district, or whether you’re having to manage more than a million people, being able to get access to the ballot.

So, one of the things that we do in each episode is we ask about a silver lining, and increasingly, I feel kind of guilty, sometimes, asking about a silver lining in the wake of some of what we’ve discussed, but I do think that it’s important to keep a nod towards what is hopeful, and I’m just so grateful to each of you because you all are the epitome of what is hopeful in our democracy.

And so, as we close out, I’m going to start with you, Gabriella, then go to Tonya, and then end with Natalie. What do you see as a silver lining in this coming election and the work that you do?

0:38:21 Gabriella Cázares-Kelly:
The silver lining is that people are very engaged, and people are understanding that their voting rights are precious, and think that that is very exciting. This past weekend, I was at a community event, and I got to have these little grandmothers come over to me from the…they’re Pascua Yaqui.

It’s a different tribe than mine, but you know, we’re all kind of related, and they came up, and they were just, we’re so proud of you for fighting for us and for doing this work, and thanking me, and you know, my community is watching. They’re watching this happen, and they know what’s on the line, and they’re excited to participate and know it’s their right.

0:39:15 Michele Goodwin:

Wow. That’s pretty powerful. Tonya, silver lining.

0:39:20 Tonya Wichman:

I think my silver lining would be all the groups that have come out in support of election officials after seeing what’s happened over the last couple years. I’ve had the opportunity to work with some of these organizations, go to DC, and speak to some legislators to explain how we do some things on our side.

I see my coworkers being more and more proud of what they do, because, no matter what, they know they’re doing it well, and they are trained that way. In every training, you know, we keep reminding them, we get to let people vote. How many people can say that?

You can get up on Election Day and say I get to let people vote today. So, they know we support them. We know we’re seeing new support that people didn’t even know we were here before, which I think was okay. I’d rather go back to that, but you see people vocally supporting you now, and reaching out, and saying how can we make this better?

0:40:16 Michele Goodwin:

Thank you, so much, for that, and you know, and to your point, it has become so visible, I think, probably after January 6, too, that people have a deeper understanding about just what’s at stake. Natalie, I’m going to wrap up with you. What do you see as a silver lining?

0:40:33 Natalie Adona:

My silver lining is, you know, I see people like Tonya, like Gabriella, like, you know, my peers at the local level and even at the state level, and you know, all the wonderful people that I have gotten to meet as a result of being an elections official, and seeing their resilience, and you know, their dedication to their voters, to our voters, their willingness to, you know, make themselves available.

If I have a question, you know, how do you do things where you’re at, or you know, I’ve had this sort of issue, you know, how would you deal with it? They will always, always, always make room and make space for me, and I will, in turn, always make space for each of these people, because, you know, we understand best what we are all going through. We are strong community, and none of us have given up on democracy. None of us have given up on voters, and that is always a reason for me, and I think, for the public to feel hopeful.

0:41:47 Michele Goodwin:

I want to thank each of you. Thank you, Natalie, thank you, Tonya, thank you, Gabriella, for joining us at Ms. Magazine for our On the Issues Podcast and shining a light on what is happening on the ground, and your preparation for this to be a free and fair and open election. Thank you, so much, for your service. It’s so deeply appreciated.

0:42:12 Natalie Adona:

Thank you so much.

0:42:14 Gabriella Cázares-Kelly:

Thank you for covering it.

0:42:20 Michele Goodwin: 

So, Tonya, I want to turn to you. Again, as we approach a very high-profile, contentious, even now, presidential election, I’m wondering what has changed since the last time that we were in conversation, and what has remained the same for you?

0:42:41 Tonya Wichman:
I can honestly say I think I have changed. 2022, I had a situation with a voter that got pretty angry and loud in the polling location, upset a lot of my poll workers. I had some high school kids that were working for the first time, sitting in the corner, crying because they thought he’d come back and do something.

So, once we got him out of the polling location, I mean, he turned me in to the state, turned me in to the commissioner, showed up at my board meeting, would stare me down when I’d go to my nephew’s ball games, or follow me out to my car, just to be intimidating.

But at that point, I don’t think I was strong enough to deal with it, and I was ready to break, and then I realized that, you know, I always go to my mom, and her comment was if somebody like you doesn’t do this, who’s going to make sure it’s done right?

So, I had to pull myself together, and I reached out to some friends, and I said how can I make a difference, a bigger difference than what I’m doing, and I got to work with some amazing groups. I got to go to DC, the summer before last, meet with legislators, talk to them about the safety of poll workers, safety of election officials.

I actually had an opportunity to go to Sierra Leone and observe their elections through the Carter Center, working on their mental health for election officials program that they had, and those types of things, the outreach that I’ve got to do has made me stronger and ready for what’s coming at us for Election Day.

But I think you can never be too prepared to make sure your poll workers are safe, your staff is safe, and I think that’s probably my biggest worry is making sure I do everything I can to make sure nobody gets hurt, nobody gets belittled or berated, that type of thing.

You know, 95 percent of our voters, I think, come in, they say thank you, they go about their day. It’s just that 5 percent that’s really loud and negative, that will make derogatory comments, like, well, I know you stuffed the ballot box, or this doesn’t count, anyway, because you rigged the election.

Those types of things are really disheartening. Overall, you know, you’ve got poll workers that’s there from 5:30 in the morning until 8, 8:30 at night, who are not near enough pay for what they’re worth, but you know, when you get there, just say thank you. Those people are giving you an opportunity that you wouldn’t have.

0:45:05 Michele Goodwin:

Tonya, I’m wondering if you ever think about gun violence, right, because, as you say, 95 percent, completely fine. It’s the 5 percent, and it’s always…if we think about the harms that people experience, it’s not necessarily the majority. It’s those random ones.

And you just talked about being stalked and being harassed, and as you’ve shared, you know, that was really…it took a toll, and you’re managing through it, right? You’re doing this work. Your mom has said, you know, who better than you, but does it still make you worry?

0:45:50 Tonya Wichman:

It always makes me worry. I mean, I’m a mom. I’m a grandma. You know, you always worry about something when you go away with your family. I don’t share, like, my family on social media, that type of thing. I’m quite cautious about how much I share about that. But I think I’ve had to get to the point where I realize there’s some things I just can’t control, and we’re going to prepare as much as we can to make sure we do everything we can.