This third installment of Ms.’s interview series with Gail Dines continues the conversation with the Wheelock College professor of sociology and women’s studies and chair of the American Studies Department. Dines recently briefed members of Congress on the harms of pornography, arguing for greater enforcement of existing obscenity laws.
Staunchly anti-porn, she argues that this abusive industry turns women into products and hijacks our sexuality. But with feminist porn on the radar, sex-workers rights groups gaining volume and Dines’ new book Pornland joining the line-up of other titles like Good Porn: A Woman’s Guide (Seal Press), it’s clear that feminist debates over sex-for-sale are not finished.
Shira Tarrant/Ms.: You’re a founding member of the group Stop Porn Culture! and I noticed that the main arguments in your book Pornland are repeated on the organization’s website. What are the main goals of this group and who are its members?
Gail Dines: We started Stop Porn Culture (SPC) after the 2007 conference on porn at Wheelock College. The goal of the conference was to jumpstart the feminist anti-porn movement and we received many requests to start an organization that would both raise public awareness and develop educational materials. We decided that since most of the founding members of SPC had been propelled into activism after seeing the anti-porn slide show from the 1980s, it made political sense to create a new one that spoke to the reality of present-day porn. Our first slide show, “Who Wants to be a Porn Star?,” is hugely successful both here and abroad. It is being used as a training tool by anti-violence organizations as well as by college professors, community activists and media literacy specialists. Rebecca Whisnant, one of the founders of SPC, produced a second show, “It’s Easy Out Here for a Pimp: How a Porn Culture Grooms Kids for Sexual Exploitation,” that focuses on how a pornified popular culture shapes the identities of children and adolescents, while increasingly portraying them as sexual objects for adults. Because it can be challenging to give these shows in public, SPC holds regular training sessions for people interested in gaining more knowledge on the topic and skills as a presenter.
Our members come from a whole range of fields that include activists, academics, teachers, health and counseling professionals and community organizers. What unites us is our deeply held belief that we need to organize against the multi-billion dollar predatory industry.
Ms.: I have to ask about the anti-porn pledge at the Stop Porn website. People who sign the pledge vow not to use porn or to knowingly be in a relationship with a partner who uses porn. How is this any different from the Religious Right’s all-or-nothing purity rings and chastity vows?
GD: By taking the Stop Porn pledge, you’re agreeing not to debase or degrade women. We’re not talking about constraining one’s sexuality but creating sexuality that is based on respect and equality. Were not against sex. Porn is political when this commodification of women circulates in mass media.
Ms.: In Pornland you describe the foundations of print pornography in the 1950s and the economic context of postwar America. You cite the misogyny of Hugh Hefner, Bob Guccione and Larry Flynt as setting the stage for today’s gonzo porn. But I notice you omit Alfred Kinsey, who also started his work in the 1950s. The Kinsey Reports did a lot to bring discussion about sexual pleasure and variety into the mainstream. It’s curious that you left out Kinsey from your book.
GD: I would agree with you but in any book you make decisions about what to include and not include. I was more interested in the industry.
This is part III of a series of interviews with Gail Dines. Part I discussed sexual freedom, coercion, safety and harm and part II included responses from porn actors.
Photo courtesy of Beacon Press.
