The We Testify founder and executive director explored the white supremacist roots of modern antiabortion policies—and the subversive power of abortion storytelling—in the latest episode of the Ms. Studios podcast Looking Back, Moving Forward.
Renee Bracey Sherman wants you to tell your abortion story—and take down white supremacist patriarchy in the process.
The founder and executive director of We Testify has spent more than a decade cultivating spaces to celebrate, honor and hold those who have had abortions. The co-host of The A Files: A Secret History of Abortion and co-author of Liberating Abortion: Claiming Our History, Sharing Our Stories, and Building the Reproductive Future We Deserve also sees that work as a way to challenge the racist and sexist history of antiabortion policies—and confront the ways those legacies continue to shape the reproductive lives of all of us, especially those at the intersections of gender, race and class.
In the second episode of Looking Back, Moving Forward—a Ms. podcast exploring the history of the magazine and the feminist movement—Bracey Sherman talked to me about the power of abortion storytelling, why confronting white supremacy is necessary to defend abortion access, and how we can all stand in solidarity with people who have had abortions.
Bracey Sherman is joined in this episode by constitutional law and health policy expert Michele Goodwin, Massachusetts Gov. Maura Healey, Plan C co-directors Angie Jean-Marie and Amy Merrill, and Women’s Law Project executive director Susan Frietsche. Together, we explored the long history of women’s fight for reproductive rights in the United States—and articulated strategies for defending and expanding abortion access across the country.
This interview has been edited and re-organized for clarity and length.
Carmen Rios: I’m curious about what your journey and the reproductive freedom movement has looked like. Where did this work start for you, and why have you walked this path?
Renee Bracey Sherman: Often when I’m asked this question, I start with the answer of, well, I had an abortion when I was 19, because that’s sort of the origin story. Going through that experience was really impactful, because even though I grew up in a family that was supportive of abortion, and I knew what I wanted—it was a straightforward decision, it was an easy decision—it still was really emotionally hard because I felt really alone. I felt like I didn’t have anyone that I could talk to about it, and I felt like there wasn’t anyone who looked like me talking about it or having an abortion.
Later, I ended up seeing For Colored Girls, the Tyler Perry film, and Tessa Thompson’s character had an abortion. I then saw someone who looks like me, even though my decision was completely different than hers and the experience was completely different than hers. It’s a rough depiction, let’s just say, but I felt so seen and that is what mattered in that moment.
A lot of my work has been about ensuring that people who have abortions see versions of themselves, and ensuring that they get to be that version for someone else—and that they get to share their whole story. They get to talk about all of the challenges, whether it’s economic barriers, racial barriers, cultural barriers, legal and structural barriers to abortion, whatever that is; that we get to talk about that openly and not face stigma, even from the pro-choice movement saying, ‘only share one abortion story’ or ‘don’t really tell people that you weren’t on birth control at that moment.’ I really want everyone to be able to have a mirror and feel loved when they share their abortion stories.
The way in which they are trying to criminalize free speech overall, but also, as part of that, abortion storytelling speech … is terrifying. It’s a way of silencing us and that shows how powerful it is for us to share our abortion stories, and how much we must be able to speak out.
Renee Bracey Sherman
Rios: The launch of Ms. is tied up in abortion storytelling, that “We Have Had Abortions” campaign. We should all be able to tell our stories and feel safe and feel loved and feel held. But what political or movement power have you found really comes from the work you’re doing with We Testify, with abortion storytelling?
Sherman: The name We Testify came from—”we” as in a collective, a number of us, testify. We share our stories. We share our experiences. We are the experts of our experiences. It’s also to testify as a religious experience, and so that was all about the collective “we.”
There’s so much about abortion storytelling that there is a focus on individualism or the individual story, the individual experience. When I first started sharing, all the photos were of what we call a “preggo belly,” where it was like a headless person, a big eight or nine month pregnant belly having an abortion, or somebody crying in a corner over a pregnancy test, and they’re always alone. Even in the depictions of abortion on television and film, they’re always alone.
I think it’s really beautiful when we can share our stories together as a collective “we.” That’s what I thought was so beautiful and inspiring about the Ms. magazine piece, in that it invited people to join those who were already sharing their abortion stories.
When I give lectures, I always highlight that [petition from the] magazine and show that they invited folks to write in with their testimonial, and it was so beautiful. I think it’s really important that we pay homage to how we got here and the history.
We Testify has T-shirts that say “I had an abortion,” and those were built on Jennifer Baumgardner’s photo series, including Gloria Steinem and a number of activists and everyday folks wearing a T-shirt that said “I had an abortion.”
It is such a beautiful moment to be able to say that openly and clearly and to be seen by others. I think it’s so cool to walk around and have that shirt on and to have someone come up to you and say: “I had an abortion, too.”
Rios: How is the very fraught legal and political landscape that we find ourselves in right now impacting the work you do?
Sherman: There’s always been risks in sharing abortion stories, but what has shifted is this larger risk where your abortion stories could be a confession, particularly for folks who live in a state where abortion is criminalized or for folks who self-managed their abortion stories.
The way in which they are trying to criminalize free speech overall, but also as part of that abortion storytelling speech, that you sharing your truth, you sharing your abortion story could be used as evidence against you, is terrifying. It’s a way of silencing us, and that shows how powerful it is for us to share our abortion stories, and how much we must be able to speak out.
It’s not just about speaking out super publicly. It’s also about speaking out with our loved ones. That conversation—letting someone know that you’ve had an abortion and then they know they can come to you when they need support. I think that is a really radical way of subverting this effort to silence us. That we can organize together, that we can share our stories on our own terms both publicly in deviance, but also locally to make sure that we take care of us.
I hope we get to a point where in 50 years we’re like: What? They used to let police stand outside clinics? What? They used to invite police to their fundraisers? I can’t believe they did that. I’m so glad we don’t do that anymore.
Renee Bracey Sherman
Rios: You’ve done so much work to elevate the history of abortion access, these untold stories and this secret, hidden, intersectional history of abortion access in this country. I’m curious what you feel has led us to this moment that we’re in—and if there’s a part of our history that illuminates to you the things we have to do differently as we move forward from here.
Sherman: When Regina [Mahone] and I started writing Liberating Abortion, we knew that we wanted to dig into the history of abortions that are in people of color’s experiences and also think about what we need to get out of this moment. But I don’t think we realized we would be writing a book that was so clear that criminalization is a big piece of it and, with that, anti-Blackness. We knew those were parts of it, and we knew anti-Blackness was at the core of it, but I don’t think we realized how much we would need that to be the solution and actually the only solution to get out of this.
The way in which our nation criminalizes life, you don’t have a house and you sleep outside, go to jail. You don’t have enough money to buy food and you steal food, go to jail. You don’t have healthcare or education and health insurance fraud, whatever that is, and enroll your kids in the wrong school and it’s not in your neighborhood, you can go to jail. These are things that people have been arrested for, criminalized for, and they make certain things a crime so that they can go after certain populations and make them behave in a certain way. Abortion is a piece of that.
In the history of abortion, every single time there is a wave of criminalization of abortion, it’s at the same time that the people in power, the forces that be, are concerned about losing power and white people losing power.
It is a way to ensure that white people will continue to have babies and behave within this hetero-patriarchal system, but also that Black and brown people’s reproduction is subject to criminalization and only exists to further capitalism and white supremacy. Understanding how all of that works together and how criminalization works with that, then you start to understand, oh, wow that’s why you’ll never find someone who is antiabortion, but pro-birthright citizenship or pro-queer families, pro-IVF. At the end of the day, they actually believe there is a specific way to raise a family—and a right, white, way.
Part of how we got to this moment—yes, Project 2025 and all of those things—but the slippery slope that got us there was even the Democrats, and folks in the middle, believing the lie of white supremacy and the American dream, and there’s a right way to have children, and if you just do it the right way, then you’ll be fine. They believed that lie, so then they allowed different bans and restrictions to be put into place—because at the end of the day, they felt like, the right people will still be able to get access to their care.
Well, guess what? Now we’ve got folks who have miscarriages who can’t get mifepristone or misoprostol and are being criminalized for the outcomes of their pregnancy. We have folks who need abortions later in pregnancy for health indications, and they also can’t get it, because the exceptions don’t work. Because they sold you a lie that if they only criminalize these people who are unworthy everyone else will be fine—but no, that was actually the way to get to you, too.
We need to stop believing in this idea of there’s a right way of anything or exceptionalism, and actually just let people be. Let people make their families on their own terms, and ensure that everyone has what they need, and stop criminalizing people for how they raise their children or the outcomes of their pregnancies. Stop going after Black and brown families for simply existing. Stop going after queer families for simply existing.
And white people, especially wealthy and upper-class white people: Stop thinking that you’re the exception and you’re different than the rest of us. Because you’re not. Now, you’re stuck in this shit with the rest of us because you thought you were different and guess what? Your whiteness didn’t protect you.
My hope is that they’ll actually figure that out and believe it this time.
We’ve got folks who have miscarriages who can’t get mifepristone or misoprostol and are being criminalized for the outcomes of their pregnancy. We have folks who need abortions later in pregnancy for health indications, and they also can’t get it, because the exceptions don’t work.
Renee Bracey Sherman
Rios: Yes to all of that! And when you’re pulling this thread, that it’s so much much bigger than just access to abortion, what would be necessary for the future of abortion that we need?
Sherman: I’ve been asked this question a lot on book tour: What does liberating abortion actually look like? We can talk through policies, and it would be nice if we had Medicaid coverage, and this and that, and whatever—but at the end of the day, I think that liberated abortion or this future that we’re going for is a feeling.
It is a world in which everyone, when they become pregnant, that it’s consensual and also that they get to say: I am pregnant, what do I actually want to do? Do I want to stay pregnant? Do I not? If I stay pregnant, do I want to parent or not? They actually get to make those decisions without having to check their bank account. or think about who in my family is going to support me, or worry.
What does it look like to be able to make that decision without having to worry? Is this person going to stay in my life if I continue this pregnancy or if I don’t? Am I going to have somewhere to live? Do I have enough food to feed myself through this pregnancy, or feed the child afterwards, or feed the children I already have? What if actually we all just had what we needed? We actually could do that. We just as a society choose not to because we are more interested in arguing about resources, and bombing people and starting wars.
We actually choose not to make sure that everyone has what they need and spend it on this idea of a boogeyman that’s out there that’s ruining our freedom and is going to attack us. Maybe if you leave people alone and get the fuck of their countries, then maybe we wouldn’t have people questioning America’s existence and all of those things. Maybe if you hadn’t stolen this land in the first place.
It’s so much work to have to keep people from having all of the necessities of life because you always have to have a war, or a fight, or something to gatekeep and keep people out instead of actually just saying: How do we give people what they need?
We spend more on incarceration than we do education, and food, and healthcare. It would actually just be cheaper, if that’s the language the economists want to use, to give people somewhere to live than to incarcerate them in jail, or give them food than to process them for stealing food. We actively choose not to.
My hope is that we recognize what we’re doing to our communities and think about, as we’re trying to change this big societal issue, how do we actually just show up for the people in our lives that we love who have abortions, are facing pregnancy decisions and just make sure they have what they need rather than questioning their decision?
Rios: What are the actions that we could be taking, or things we could be doing in our lives, that could facilitate paving the way for that new way of thinking about this culture?
Sherman: Start with the micro. When someone tells you that they’re pregnant, shifting our language to say, “Oh, how are you feeling about that?” And just let them step into that space, not assuming that every pregnancy declaration is celebratory, and even the ones that are celebratory, they might not be feeling great about that today, or they might be celebratory, but also feel like they have to keep the celebration up even though they’re actually experiencing depression or complicated feelings, right? Create a space where they can step in and say, “Oh, here’s how I’m feeling.” Invite them to share their full feelings.
Then, of course, if they’re like “I’m feeling great.” Then you can say “That’s awesome, how can I support you?” If someone’s like, “I’m feeling conflicted.” “Oh, would you like to talk? Do you want me to listen? I’m happy to listen.” Just create that space for them to step into and someone might say, “I actually feel great because I decided I want an abortion and I know what I want.” “Okay, cool, do you need any support with that?” One thing we did years ago was a study asking people, who consider themselves pro-choice, how they would show up for someone who had an abortion. What was quite fascinating, while people said they would help talk to somebody about their options, things like that, support dropped off when we asked people if they would take someone to the abortion appointment or they would help them pay for it.
Those are actually some of the biggest barriers that people have, not being able to afford it and not being able to get to a clinic. Knowing what those resources are and being that person who can show up for your friend or your loved one that actually will make their experience so much more straightforward and means that they have to think about less. They have to deal with fewer challenges.
Do you know where your local abortion fund is? Do you know where your local clinic is? Do you know if there is a telehealth abortion service that services your state? Do you know the self-managed abortion protocol? Do you know that you can get pills online, even in places where it’s criminalized, but you should know that it is criminalized, and that you do not need to talk to police, do not tell them what you took? Know how to protect yourself. Whether it’s for you or for someone you love, know those things.
Every single time there is a wave of criminalization of abortion, it’s at the same time that the people in power, the forces that be, are concerned about losing power and white people losing power.
Renee Bracey Sherman
Volunteer and show up. Something I love that keeps me connected to this work is volunteering with my local practical support organization. Often, they’re connected with the local abortion fund, and I drive people to their appointments. I pick them up at the airport, sometimes they stay at my house, whatever it is to make sure that they can get from their door to the clinic and back. That’s really, really important.
Think about how you can show up in your community. Is there a local clinic that you can help pick up trash from outside their clinic? Abortion Access Front does this work, and it’s really, really wonderful. They do a lot of cleanups around the clinics. Show up in that way. Ask the clinic what they need. If you want to donate money, like I said, donate to your local abortion fund. Sometimes local clinics are nonprofits, they take donations, make a monthly donation. Or donate to If/When/How, the Repro Legal Defense Fund, or the Repro Legal Helpline, so that people who are arrested or criminalized for the outcomes of their pregnancies can be bailed out and have legal services.
You can always donate to We Testify. We have retreats, like summer camps for people who have had abortions, to meet one another and feel confident in their experiences. Those cost money, so donating to that to make that journey, that experience, possible for someone else is really important.
Then, of course, share your abortion story if you feel comfortable or just listen to someone’s abortion story. There are obviously all the policy things, but I think it’s really important that we actually start building the culture that we want to show up and love people who have had abortions.
Everyone loves someone who’s had an abortion—and if you’ve had an abortion, you are so deeply loved. I care about you so much, and we have a home for you at We Testify.
Rios: As we look back on 50-plus years of Ms., what do you hope or believe that we can accomplish in this fight in the next 50?
Sherman: I can’t wait for us to get to medication abortion over-the-counter. I can’t wait for us to get to real solidarity with other movements, whether it’s the economic justice movement or a real social safety net and welfare, the anti-war movement, anti-policing. Embracing that there should not be any criminalization of pregnancy outcomes at all, let alone we should abolish prisons—but if we can actually get to a moment where it is so clear that to be in support of reproductive rights, to be pro-choice, also means to be anti-police, because we can’t liberate abortion so long as police are criminalizing us.
I hope we get to a point where in 50 years we’re like: What? They used to let police stand outside clinics? What? They used to invite police to their fundraisers? I can’t believe they did that. I’m so glad we don’t do that anymore.
I can’t wait for that moment, and I can’t wait for abortion to just be widely available as, I don’t know, every eyeglass store and urgent care, whatever it is that you need, that it’s available. Also, for all of the abortion pills and Plan B, and all the emergency contraceptives, and all of that to not be in those ridiculous little plastic boxes. I want them on the counter. You just grab it and go right next to the Horny Goat Weed and whatever else they’ve got. I can’t wait for that.
Listen to Looking Back, Moving Forward on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, iHeart Radio or wherever you get your podcasts—and be sure to like, follow and subscribe to the show so you never miss an episode! You can also explore more bonus footage from every episode in the Ms. archives.
Editor’s note: The Ms. series, Our Abortion Stories, chronicles readers’ experiences of abortion pre- and post-Roe. Abortions are sought by a wide range of people, for many different reasons. There is no single story. Share your abortion story by emailing myabortionstory@msmagazine.com.
